Star Wars Squadron - new EA game

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Re: Star Wars Squadron - new EA game

Tuskin
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Post by Tuskin » Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:53 pm

sedenion wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:31 am
Designed for consoles, adapted and targeted for console gamers...
It feels like the other way around to me. There are so many controls they have to double up on the X-Box/PS controllers, with double taps or holding the button to do some options. On PC you can just bind all those around.

This is not dumbed down or simplified. That would be Battlefront or Rogue Squadron.

This is a proper Star Wars flight game. I haven't had this fun since, well XWA.

The game is hard.

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Post by XDragon » Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:18 pm

You're right, it is not an easy game. I'm playing on Ace and my god I've died countless times in the first mission alone. There is a steep learning curve but I can already tell I'm better just after 6 hours of gametime
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Post by haui » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:10 pm

solo campaign is great an hard. But the hardest is to learn the keyboard settings without printout. I love this from xwalliance but today thats not possible, why
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Post by Vince T » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:16 pm

Getting old :)
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Post by Ace Antilles » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:37 pm

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Post by Knight26 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:09 pm

I just read that the campaign is only 14 missions. Is that right? That seems like an insanely short flight sim campaign.
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Post by Tuskin » Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:15 pm

Knight26 wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:09 pm
I just read that the campaign is only 14 missions. Is that right? That seems like an insanely short flight sim campaign.
Because it was built mainly as a Multiplayer game.

I haven't beaten it yet, but I've heard it's about 6 hours, but that is depending on your skill and what difficulty you have it set at.

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Post by Metathrom » Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:28 pm

Knight26 wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:09 pm
I just read that the campaign is only 14 missions. Is that right? That seems like an insanely short flight sim campaign.
Yeah, it's about as big as the Balance of Power campaign for XvT, which is what Squadrons is mostly being compared to, so it sounds about right.

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Post by AngeI » Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:09 pm

First impressions:

Shiny, definitely not the arcadey bull of recent Battlefronts with power management, turning faster at lower speeds, inspecting ships etc all call backs to XWA. Not tried multiplayer yet. i've only flown the TIE Fighter so far but given I've spent the last year with hundreds of hours in XWA as I work on TFTC, the flying feels a little sluggish in comparison which I think is just me so used to the XWA engines flight mechanics. So far, not so bad.

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Post by sedenion » Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:34 pm

Tuskin wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:53 pm
It feels like the other way around to me. There are so many controls they have to double up on the X-Box/PS controllers, with double taps or holding the button to do some options. On PC you can just bind all those around.

This is not dumbed down or simplified. That would be Battlefront or Rogue Squadron.

This is a proper Star Wars flight game. I haven't had this fun since, well XWA.

The game is hard.
I have no doubt the game was designed to help Thurstmaster and Saitek to sold some Hotas (Hotas can be plugged on consoles, this is not exclusive to PC), but, all I see and read here and there confirms what I suspected.

- Short campaign (connect to The Cloud as soon as possible and train our deep learning algorithm)
- No real mission editor, no real way to customize missions (the player is a simple customer, he don't have any creative prerogative, he is here to consume and be "connected")
- Only 6 maps (stay within our perimeter, stay slave to our futurs "new contents", don't go out)
- Multiplayer oriented via rank based matchmaking (play again and again the same maps to level up, the algorithm will choose the best for you)
- No way to create custom private server (stay connected to The Cloud, we need to control the way you play, we - the editor - know better than you how you have to play and with who)

In two words, this is a "Quake Champions" in space, with ships instead of "gladiators". So, even if the first impress is very good, because visually this is very impressive (we are in 2020... less impressive would be a problem), to me the game will quickly become repetitive and boring and is representative to what I hate in recent games and way editors turn video game industry: Cloud Dependant, false freedom, false choices, bait by graphical contents and false customization.

Anyway, this is my opinion...

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Post by Tuskin » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:24 am

sedenion wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:34 pm
- Short campaign (connect to The Cloud as soon as possible and train our deep learning algorithm)
- No real mission editor, no real way to customize missions (the player is a simple customer, he don't have any creative prerogative, he is here to consume and be "connected")
- Only 6 maps (stay within our perimeter, stay slave to our futurs "new contents", don't go out)
- Multiplayer oriented via rank based matchmaking (play again and again the same maps to level up, the algorithm will choose the best for you)
- No way to create custom private server (stay connected to The Cloud, we need to control the way you play, we - the editor - know better than you how you have to play and with who)

In two words, this is a "Quake Champions" in space, with ships instead of "gladiators". So, even if the first impress is very good, because visually this is very impressive (we are in 2020... less impressive would be a problem), to me the game will quickly become repetitive and boring and is representative to what I hate in recent games and way editors turn video game industry: Cloud Dependant, false freedom, false choices, bait by graphical contents and false customization.

Anyway, this is my opinion...
You sound like a conspiracy theorist with those things you're writing in parenthesis.

There's nothing wrong with the 'cloud'. There's also no evidence they're using any of this as part of a 'deep learning algorithm'.

And none of those things you said at the end are 'False'. You can play offline, you can disconnect your internet and still play the campaign and the single player Fleet Battles, you just won't be able to unlock any new stuff.

Interesting, if you're not connected to the EA servers, you can use every component and customization in the practice mode, no idea if that's intentional or not. If you're connected you can only use what you've unlocked.
Last edited by Tuskin on Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Drinkinmiester » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:35 am

I haven't tried it yet but its sounds like more or less a consensus here that the flight mechanics are good but there needs to be more content, right? Is the multiplayer at least fun? The focus on multi player limiting in the campaign missions at all? Can you play the campaign in coop?

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Post by Tuskin » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:37 am

Drinkinmiester wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:35 am
Can you play the campaign in coop?
No.

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Post by Drinkinmiester » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:38 am

what the heck? seems like it ought to be a no-brainer for a multiplayer game

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Post by BattleDog » Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:12 am

Tuskin wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:24 am
sedenion wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:34 pm
- Short campaign (connect to The Cloud as soon as possible and train our deep learning algorithm)
- No real mission editor, no real way to customize missions (the player is a simple customer, he don't have any creative prerogative, he is here to consume and be "connected")
- Only 6 maps (stay within our perimeter, stay slave to our futurs "new contents", don't go out)
- Multiplayer oriented via rank based matchmaking (play again and again the same maps to level up, the algorithm will choose the best for you)
- No way to create custom private server (stay connected to The Cloud, we need to control the way you play, we - the editor - know better than you how you have to play and with who)

In two words, this is a "Quake Champions" in space, with ships instead of "gladiators". So, even if the first impress is very good, because visually this is very impressive (we are in 2020... less impressive would be a problem), to me the game will quickly become repetitive and boring and is representative to what I hate in recent games and way editors turn video game industry: Cloud Dependant, false freedom, false choices, bait by graphical contents and false customization.

Anyway, this is my opinion...
You sound like a conspiracy theorist with those things you're writing in parenthesis.

There's nothing wrong with the 'cloud'. There's also no evidence they're using any of this as part of a 'deep learning algorithm'.

And none of those things you said at the end are 'False'. You can play offline, you can disconnect your internet and still play the campaign and the single player Fleet Battles, you just won't be able to unlock any new stuff.

Interesting, if you're not connected to the EA servers, you can use every component and customization in the practice mode, no idea if that's intentional or not. If you're connected you can only use what you've unlocked.
If you aren't online it won't save your campaign progress, or your keymappings, which is pretty obnoxious.

In general this feels like what it is, an AAA game made on a shoestring - the basics are there, the production value is good, the presentation is slick but the game is rather thin.

The learning curve is also brutal given it drops you straight into the campaign rather than letting you do any training.
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Post by Tuskin » Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:27 am

BattleDog wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:12 am
If you aren't online it won't save your campaign progress, or your keymappings, which is pretty obnoxious.



The learning curve is also brutal given it drops you straight into the campaign rather than letting you do any training.

It saved my campaign progress when I was offline, and the first 2 missions are your training.

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Post by BattleDog » Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:38 am

Tuskin wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:27 am
BattleDog wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:12 am
If you aren't online it won't save your campaign progress, or your keymappings, which is pretty obnoxious.



The learning curve is also brutal given it drops you straight into the campaign rather than letting you do any training.

It saved my campaign progress when I was offline, and the first 2 missions are your training.
Well, it didn't for me, I'm going to have to start over. The first two missions aren't really training. Remember the training in XvT?

You started at 0% throttle in front of a container with your flight instructor in your ear. In this game, the first mission you launch, fly around a bit and then it's combat - second mission you do a "system check" and off you go. The game actually has a training mode where you can choose what you fight, it also has an obstacle course. You don't start there because that would require more dialogue and at least a thin narrative setup to introduce the training - so instead it drops you in the hot seat and let's you blow up.

Allegedly K_Kinneson never blew up in combat, since X-Wing - partly that's because you have training missions that prepare you for real combat. I still don't know what half the controls do in this game, even after remapping them, and I'm learning it by skirmishing rather than the game teaching me. Yes, XWA used "real" missions to train you but the first mission is an absolute milk run and it's not until mission three you face anything even resembling real danger.
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Post by XDragon » Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:52 am

So if anyone wants https://www.ea.com/games/starwars/squad ... -squadrons

For cross play. I'm XDragon2688 on the Xbox one. It should also be my EA name too
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Post by Tuskin » Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:30 am

BattleDog wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:38 am
Tuskin wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:27 am
BattleDog wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:12 am
If you aren't online it won't save your campaign progress, or your keymappings, which is pretty obnoxious.



The learning curve is also brutal given it drops you straight into the campaign rather than letting you do any training.

It saved my campaign progress when I was offline, and the first 2 missions are your training.
Well, it didn't for me, I'm going to have to start over. The first two missions aren't really training. Remember the training in XvT?

You started at 0% throttle in front of a container with your flight instructor in your ear. In this game, the first mission you launch, fly around a bit and then it's combat - second mission you do a "system check" and off you go. The game actually has a training mode where you can choose what you fight, it also has an obstacle course. You don't start there because that would require more dialogue and at least a thin narrative setup to introduce the training - so instead it drops you in the hot seat and let's you blow up.

Allegedly K_Kinneson never blew up in combat, since X-Wing - partly that's because you have training missions that prepare you for real combat. I still don't know what half the controls do in this game, even after remapping them, and I'm learning it by skirmishing rather than the game teaching me. Yes, XWA used "real" missions to train you but the first mission is an absolute milk run and it's not until mission three you face anything even resembling real danger.
There's tutorial popups telling you what controls do what throughout the first 2 missions.

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Post by haui » Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:44 am

Now i played the singleplayer for about 2 hours and i like it. A training course at the beginning would be better to test all the keys and so like in the old games. For example medal of honor had in the first games always a pacour to test the weapons and everything that was nice. then you can start the mission and it is not nesassary to bring popups what to do now. That damages the flow and the fun.
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Post by Vince T » Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:26 am

I gave it a quick run last evening. Completed the tutorial and quit again.

Not sure if it's just me but even if I wanted to connect to the EA servers, I simply can't, because the bloody login overlay (Steam version) is completely screwed up. After a few seconds, it deletes whatever I type and after a few more seconds it's bugged completely and I can't enter anything in the login fields.

Sooo, that's it for me. I'll go back to XWA. I've wasted 40 bucks on better things.
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Post by sedenion » Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:36 am

Tuskin wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:24 am
You sound like a conspiracy theorist with those things you're writing in parenthesis.
It is "conspiracy theory" until it become "progress" or "new standard".
Tuskin wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:24 am
There's nothing wrong with the 'cloud'.
The cloud IS a wrong thing, but we will not have this debate here. One should ask itself why GAFAMs are soo plaised to offer cloud space and features to their customers, sometimes even without their knowlege, and game industry now gather maximum thing via online services. They now even allow you to play for free... what is their business model ?
Tuskin wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:24 am
And none of those things you said at the end are 'False'.
Realy ? You have only 6 precomputed maps with predefined objectives, but you can choose the color of your helmet, no mission editor, no way to save custom missions, but you can configure some details of your ships. This is precisely what I call "false choice, false freedom, false customization". Even Quake III Arena (whose X-Wing Squadron is more the descendant than XWA, despite appearances) had 26 maps when release, was not limited to 10 players, and obviously offered ability to create its own server(s). With X-Wing Squadron, you cannot even properly play the solo campaign without being connected to their cloud, because all your personal data are stored in THEIR servers even if you need to have 26 Go of storage on your own device for the game... don't ask why, this is a forbidden question, this is a "conspiracy theory".

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Post by Old_Jedi » Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:54 pm

Well, what a strange day.

Due to the crap weather, my flight in a Spitfire was cancelled :nosmile:, but I got to fly a TIE Fighter in SW Squadrons instead :D

I was quite impressed - it will take a while to get used to the layout and I'm struggling a bit getting the flight stick/HOTAS controls to my liking, but hey, I was not nearly as crap as I thought I would be on the tutorial missions and my old PC held up quite nicely.

Think I am going to enjoy this...

hdik

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Post by Drinkinmiester » Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:23 pm

Got it last night and played it. The short nice version is that its not the new Xwing vs tie fighter, more like its the new rogue Squadron style rail shooter with some admittedly fun multiplayer that has some potential. the more detailed version is less nice. My main gripe is the singleplayer campaign. The writing is more disney crap that apparently had a couple of five year olds as their creative consultant. The game is clearly aimed at much younger audience, people argue about whether Star Wars is really for kids or not but disney seems to determined to make it so. There's no stats or system of balance or rules that the singleplayer game or story works within, corvettes and Nebulon Bs beat star destroyers one on one not through some clever trick or desperate strategy, but ya know, just because. The little group of 4 fighters that follow you around like in Starfox beat whole fighter wings over and over again, just because. the gimicky systems and "support" mechanic are overly gamey for a "realistic" universe like star wars and feel kinda crammed in, in the hopes of spicing up multiplayer it seems.

Ok enough bitching and moaning, the good news is that it ran beautifully on my refurbished old pc, the voice actors were top notch even though their material they had to work with wasn't so good, and the multiplayer was pretty fun, there is some potential there maybe. What work that was apparently was done on balancing was done here in balancing out the fighters against each other for multiplayer. Overall I would say, if you want the multiplayer matches, wait til its on sale if you haven't bought it already and don't expect much depth otherwise. Again think of the Rogue Squadron games but with crummy storytelling.

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Post by Rookie_One1 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:56 pm

It's more like Rogue Squadron, with some parts from the X-Wing series (it DOES have power management after all)

One thing i'm not happy is how they balanced the warheads part, I would had preferred that the X-Wing kept 6 proton torpedoes and 8 missiles as per canon.

While it's fun, I prefer the older XVT for multiplayer, it got more depth IMO (especially since the new game don't show the asymmetric warfare dimension of the rebel alliance that even as the "new" new republic had) and more variants in mission such as capture, escort, defense, etc... , with while Squadrons only have either fleet battle or dogfight.

basically, there is lot of potential, but I think they probably "dumbed it down" a bit to make for a more general appeal.....
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