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Darkblue
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Post by Darkblue » Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:25 pm

Hello,

I am trying to put together a new installation with XWAUCP 1.3 of a spanish version. I have found two things I would like to expose:

- The language Pack does not have all the localized wave files needed. Despite of having the CD2 in the tray, mission voices (for example mission 7 Battle 1 to pick one) are still in english: I had to copy the folders inside CD2 wave folder into the local installation and overwrite them in order to have them in spanish. I know that the CD2 wav files are read if they are not in installation folder, but as they are there (I guess XWAUCP or XWALP) installed them, then is useless to have the spanish one in the CD2, they must be copied to local folder. I guess that these waves should be included in the XWALP. I think a v1.1 (or 2.0) of the XWALP would be needed...

- About XWA.TAB. Despite it is said that the XWALP are ok with XWAUCP, I found it has some problems: finally I found where was the problem that leaded to dark/grey uniform textures in all ships (no lighting) if diffuse lighting is ON (for example Mission 7, Battle 1, or skirmish). It has been a very annoying bug which moreover was not present in all missions. It is the edited XWA.TAB file which causes that:

Just after installing XWAUCP1.3 the game reverts to english (except voices, of course) but lighting is ok. When XWALP is then installed, the new XWA.TAB produces the bug. If the xwa.tab renamed by XWAUCP to xwaOrig.tab is reverted to xwa.tab (and the one from XWALP is renamed to something else) then the bug dissapears and the lighting is ok, but I am afraid that maybe something can go bad if I play with the original xwa.tab file in a XWAUCP1.3 installation. Could someone confirm this ?

BTW, Launcher.tab is not guilty, I have checked renaming it while not touching XWA.tab.

I understand that in the XWA.TAB (for localized versions) some modifications have been done for Xwing Alliance Upgrade to work, is that true? If so, then I could not found in these forums neither Darksaber's site, any indications of which modifications should be done and why (to try them for myself).

On the other hand I have found here an XWA.TAB Spanish v1.3 file to download done by Darksaber IIRC. I have downloaded it, but the lighting bug keeps appearing.

I wanted to explain it, first for you to know and maybe eventually to solve it (if I am not wrong, and they are not intended, at least regarding wav files).

Regarding XWA.TAB I really would appreciate some help, because although XWAUP is intended to be used in english AFAIK, I would prefer to read it as I did when I played it for the first time.

I don't know why with this game I have a hard time to get used to see it in english, with other games I have no problem... Thank you !
Last edited by Darkblue on Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

Darkblue
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Post by Darkblue » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:10 pm

Info: I see that using original XWA.tab with the XWAUCP pack really DO some things bad. At least I have just seen that the starfield is irregular by squared / rectangular zones, some are ok, some have only a few stars, others thin and long do not have any stars, sometimes sky has a box shape...

So, if using xwa.tab from XWALP then I loose lighting, which is a no-go. And if I remove xwa.tab then I play in a mix of english - spanish. Could someone try to help ? Has someone information about what is modified in xwa.tab file?

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Darksaber
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Post by Darksaber » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:35 am

So what does an XWA.tab do, well if there is an XWA.tab present, all it does is to override most of the text files such as

Fronttxt.txt
shiplist.txt
specdesc.txt
strings.txt

From the Mission folder
Email.txt

It also has information in it that is in the mission *.tie files, such as radio message text and backdrop numbering

That was the problem the Backdrop numbering, because DTM had made changes to all the mission files to add a better backdrop starfield, if a xwa.tab was present it overrides all the settings DTM had made in the mission files , so you get an odd behaviour where the added starfield is a big square in the mission.

So what I have done to the xwa.tab files is to remove all the associated numbering to do with the backdrops from the xwa.tab file, so that there is no hindrance to mission files (*.tie).

So why you getting lighting problems I'm not sure, as what ever info I have removed from the xwa.tab should be replaced with the information within the other text files.

If you not happy with the language packs then you could try this utility someone made that does the same thing I did to remove the backdrop info from the xwa.tab file

patch to make Translation language compatible with Backdrops

Which order did you install things?

it should be:-

1. A version of XWA Disc, Gog or Steam
2. one of the craft packs i.e XWAUCP or DSUCP
3. one of the language packs

Installing the langauge pack before the craft pack is a no, no, as some of the language pack file will be overwriten by the craft pack files.

Also if you have installed correctly there is no need to have your xwa discs (CD2 in the try) as it will all run from your hard-drive.

Also, instead of installing every patch, craft pack, or any other alteration, try playing the game as it came, then see if you still have the lighting problems i.e. dark/grey uniform textures, as this is usually caused by your video card/drivers and not any of the craft/language packs!

Or if you not happy with installing the craft pack then just install a couple of individual craft installers and see it that has the same affect the dark/grey uniform textures!
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”.”
- John Lydgate

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Darkblue
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Post by Darkblue » Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:48 pm

Hi Darksaber

Thank you very much for all your answer and detailed explanations. Thanks too for your patience.

I have tested the tool you link to, but the result is the same than with the Language Pack.

The installation order is just like you say, in that order.

1. XWA from CDs (in fact I have installed it in Windows XP virtual machine), then copied to my W10 64 and add the needed registry keys.
2. Patched to 2.02
3. Installed XWAUCP 1.3
4. Spanish language pack
5. Copied wave files from CD to have all voices in spanish (BTW, I keep CD on tray -DaemonTools- to pass the copy protection)

On the other hand, I have tested the vanilla 2.02 (of course spanish version), and it does not show the problem. I have also tested the just installed XWAUP 1.3 and it does not show the problem (which seems logical as it renames existing XWA.tab to XWAOrig.tab, so it is not used by the game).

I can't discard really that it could be something partially related to graphic drivers, but there is some cause in the files themselves (I guess xwa.tab). I have tried to tweak Nvidia CP but without luck, I don't know even which type of control/config I should test, so I have tweaked somewhat randomly/by intuition. I recall to have this problem for some years now, and with different graphic cards and OS (although always nvidia), so I never played too much thinking that someday I (or other) would solve it...

For your description of the xwa.tab file, it is difficult to imagine that something there could affect the lighting engine, but...it is.

Don't know what more to test. I guess there are other people that suffer from the same (I recall some post here asking for the same, but without answers, IIRC). I would like to hear from someone else more though. Maybe we could have some idea to test... I am running out of them, I'm afraid.

I guess most of people here have an english installation, but if someone could test the Battle 1, Mission 6 (I think it is the sixth) called "Destroy Imperial Sensor Net", after installing a language pack it could help to know if it is general behaviour or not...

EDIT: I remember now that this problem was there even before the DTM backdrops where released (although maybe it affected only skirmish, can't be sure), maybe that could be a hint ?
XWINGALLIANCE 2016-02-17 20-43-21-30 peque.jpg
XWINGALLIANCE 2016-02-17 20-34-45-01 peque.jpg
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Darkblue
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Post by Darkblue » Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:07 pm

I have been tweaking xwa.tab and misión (I took the 6th of Battle 1). I have not succeed by modifying XWA.TAB so I have left it as it is from the Language Pack. But in Allied I have seen that the cause are not the backdrops of planets but the starfield, it seems.

The problem is that the starfield seems to be composed of several B/Drop elements with background #55, which buy they way is shown as '?' in Allied. I would like to understand how it is done as I would like to try to delete and rebuild these ítems myself or to tweak them. Could someone how the starfield or their B/Drop items work?
Allied 1B1M7G.TIE.PNG
EDIT: I am following the DTM backdrops instructions to install starfield. It is strange, if the B/Drop entries for starfield are below the B/Drop entries for planets, then lighting is ok, but the backdrops of the planets are missing, if I move them above the backdrops (planets) then the lighting is missing... I keep testing.

Tx!
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Darkblue
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Post by Darkblue » Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:18 pm

Ok. I fixed it !!

After tweaking the files I have fixed the missions that showed the problem, and now the lighting is correct.

When I played with XWA.TAB and tried to remove some data (partial) from the one referred to backdrops for a given mission, I found that I could change lighting (color, etc), so I see that in some way illumination is also modified/influenced by xwa.tab.

The problem seems related to the new starfield. My hypothesis is that the new starfield is a giant backdrop box which covers the native game starfield, or at least it is managed like that. So, that explains why the planet backdrops must be placed after the starfield backdrop (B/Drop entries) in Allied, otherwise the planets would be drawn first and then covered by the starfield -which would be drawn later-, hiding them.

On the other hand as far as I know Xwing Alliance defines the illumination based on the backdrops images (planets color, brightness, etc).

My hypothesis is that :

1. as the starfield is a backdrop that cover all environment, the planets must be drawn the last ones (at least after the starfield), so they are visible (just as the DTMSBReadme says).
2. for some reason, it seems to me that when a modified localized version is used (so with a XWA.TAB cleaned of backdrops references), the program takes the first B/Drop entries in TIE file as reference for defining illumination.

Thus if the starfield B/Drops are the first in TIE file (in AlliED) the illumination is monoton and gray (derived from the color and brightness of starfield backdrop), on the other hand if I move the B/Drop of planets before/above the starfield B/Drop, then the lighting is correct but the planets do not show (I guess they are drawn first and then covered/hidden behind the starfield bitmap which is drawn later).

So the fix (a dirty fix, if you want) has been to duplicate the B/Drops entries of the planets and put a copy above/before the B/Drops entries of the starfield. In that way these planet backdrops are used to define the correct lighting, then the starfield is drawn (hiding the first planets) but then they are drawn another time after the starfield thanks to the first set of B/Drop entries for planets that were already after the starfield definition, thus rendering them visible.

I wish I could have found a cleaner solution, but I did not... I think that the entries in XWA.TAB that refer to planets' backdrops are ok, they point to the B/Drops that drive the lighting, but there are others that enter in conflict with the new starfield. Anyway when we delete in xwa.tab the full block of data that refer to backdrops in general for a given mission (in order to avoid problems with starfield), we delete some info that would be needed related to planets' backdrop (illumination) and thus we 'free' the program to guess and select by itself the planets' backdrops into TIE file. This also explains why the original XWA.TAB (whose references to backdrops are not removed) does not have problems of lighting (but problems with the new starfield). If we would have a .tab editor or precise knowledge of each entry in the xwa.tab I guess we could modify it in a precise way, so this mission file modification would not be necessary. English version do not access XWA.TAB so it is not influenced by eventual edited out or incorrect information.

Nevertheless there are some missions that are already ok so they do not need the fix, although planet backdrops are after starfield definition. I am not sure why they work ok meanwhile others do not, though.

I have checked all missions one by one, and I have fixed only the ones that were bad, not the ones that were already ok. In total I have had to fix 22 missions through all 7 battles. Including the nº 1 from Battle 6 which -at side of lighting problem- was not showing the planet backdrop because it was wrongly placed (it remained hidden by the starfield in region 1). Maybe I should have 'fixed' all missions, even the ones that were ok, but I chose not to touch anything that was already ok. In any case, if it is needed is easy to do.

BTW, I tested all this with the XWA.TAB generated by Darksaber's Language Pack (in my case, the spanish one)

I attach here a zip with the fixed missions, just in case someone find it useful.
Dark textures fix (mission fixes) v1.0.zip
I hope it helps other people that may have the same problem than me to enjoy the game and mods in his own language.

Darksaber, maybe you would like to include these fixed files in your language packs if you think they are worth it (and maybe together with the extra wave files).

Thank you very much for your help.
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Post by Darksaber » Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:12 am

Nice bit of detective work Darkblue, I'll have to test the missions with the language pack installed.

I have a query though you talk about extra wave files, I'm not sure I understand what extra wave files you mean, in total for each language pack there are a total of 6888 wave files.

I have the English and German Discs and in total from each disc (when both wave folders are combined into one) there are still a total of 6888 wave files,

I was sent the wave folders from 3 individual people for the French, Spanish and Italian languages and the combined total for each wave folder of each language is 6888 wave files.

Like I said I'm not sure which extra wave files your referring too

Could you explain or upload the files your referring too
Thanks
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”.”
- John Lydgate

Good Things Come To Those Who Wait....
Darksaber's X-Wing Station

Darkblue
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Post by Darkblue » Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:15 am

Thanks, it is a nice feeling when oneself succeed to fix something,

Regarding the wave files, I have tested the spanish pack on a new XWA + XWAUCP1.3 install, and actually the wave files installed are all 6888, but except for the missions of 'Prologue' all of them are the english ones... for both Missionvoice and Frontend folders.

By some reason I thought they were missing in the pack and that the english ones were a left over of a previous installation, but it is not. My XWA install do not have a wave folder by default (it is the original 'Full Installation' of Totally Games), XWAUCP1.3 do not add any wave file, and the wave folder and files are created by the Language Pack itself.

I guess that maybe the person that provided you with the spanish files mixed them up.

I have also tested the other languages (tested one or two wave files of each battle in Missionvoice folder, and one or two files in Frontend folder, which is the mission briefing): the French is correct, German is correct and Italian is correct.

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Post by Darksaber » Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:35 am

Ah I see now, thanks that makes sense, I haven't listened to every wave files so I wouldn't have noticed that some where in English

Going to PM

and thanks
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”.”
- John Lydgate

Good Things Come To Those Who Wait....
Darksaber's X-Wing Station

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Ramshu
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Post by Ramshu » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:22 am

XWA.TAB of Darksaber's language packs, when is it used with DSUCP v2.3 the "new ships" disappear of the tech library, at least in spanish version.
Thanks.

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