[Solved] Frigate Jericho magically disappears

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[Solved] Frigate Jericho magically disappears

Darth_Binks
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Post by Darth_Binks » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:02 am

Hi again!

Playing through the campaign up to B5M7, the frigate Jericho magically disappears!

It's the attack on the Hurrim base mission. I was able to play through the entire mission, destroyed the Corrupter. All objectives were complete, and the Jericho entered hyperspace (after not getting a single scratch the whole mission) to return to the Liberty.

The objective for the Jericho to return to the Liberty never completed, and the frigate is just... gone. It got lost somewhere in between the Hurrim base and the Liberty.

It may be a space ghost ship now, like a galactic Flying Dutchman.
Blue Zoidberg: As for me I design mansions and then live in them. I'm lying! I'm an apalling failure!<BR>Red Zoidberg: Me too! A big fat one.<BR>-The Farnsworth Parabox, Futurama

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Ace Antilles
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Post by Ace Antilles » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:33 am

What is it with you and the Jericho! :D
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Darth_Binks
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Post by Darth_Binks » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:23 am

Also, I never fail the mission, it just never completes.

Ace I've been installing from my 21 year old CDs, I think they may be cursed by now.
Blue Zoidberg: As for me I design mansions and then live in them. I'm lying! I'm an apalling failure!<BR>Red Zoidberg: Me too! A big fat one.<BR>-The Farnsworth Parabox, Futurama

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Post by Darth_Binks » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:17 pm

Just tried it again, the Jericho dissapears reliably. It looks like it's not even going to the Liberty hyperspace nav buoy, it goes to a point 7km away from there. Then it hypers out, dissapears and the mission never completes.

There are also other problems with this mission, the ISDII Corrupter blows most of the freighters and storm unit ATRs away as soon as it gets into the system. Also if you call for reinforcements from Xwing blue they attack the shuttle you're supposed to disable, even if it's already disabled.
Blue Zoidberg: As for me I design mansions and then live in them. I'm lying! I'm an apalling failure!<BR>Red Zoidberg: Me too! A big fat one.<BR>-The Farnsworth Parabox, Futurama

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Jaeven
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Post by Jaeven » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:50 pm

I'll have a look at it later today. If I recall I ran into a similar issue a couple of months ago.

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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:34 pm

I made an update to B5M7 back in 2018. You can download it from here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f8glzvvjmypr ... y7bPa?dl=0
However, it's not compatible with the new Super Backdrop pack. The new starfield backdrops are missing.
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Jaeven
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Post by Jaeven » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:48 pm

Ok, this should fix it. I can't reliably reproduce the Jericho disappearing or even guess at what causes it. I'll put some more time in and see what genius has installed the Katana Fleet's flight computers on the Jericho.

In the meantime, this fix should allow the mission to complete. Be sure you back up your old file first, and then see if this allows you to progress.
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Last edited by Jaeven on Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ace Antilles
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Post by Ace Antilles » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:57 pm

Jaeven wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:48 pm
Ok, this should fix it. I can't reliably reproduce the Jericho disappearing or even guess at what causes it. I'll put some more time in and see what genius has installed the Katana Fleet's flight computers on the Jericho.

In the meantime, this fix should allow the mission to complete. Be sure you back up your old file first, and then see if this allows you to progress.
What fix? Lol can't see an attachment
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Jaeven
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Post by Jaeven » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:58 pm

Ace Antilles wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:57 pm
Jaeven wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:48 pm
Ok, this should fix it. I can't reliably reproduce the Jericho disappearing or even guess at what causes it. I'll put some more time in and see what genius has installed the Katana Fleet's flight computers on the Jericho.

In the meantime, this fix should allow the mission to complete. Be sure you back up your old file first, and then see if this allows you to progress.
What fix? Lol can't see an attachment
I don't know what you mean ;) :D

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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:07 pm

Many fighters in that mission have order-related problems, the FRG Jericho has both order-related issues and jump condition-related issues.
ISDII Corrupter moves through “phantom asteroids” without colliding and it also sometimes destroys the Hurrim Base.

However, the bug you reported (FRG Jericho doesn’t return to the Liberty, so you cannot complete the mission) is Bug #7 in the list of the bugs I made at the time.
The rework I made for the orders of the FRG Jericho will solve the problem most of the times.

Please try my fixed mission and tell me if the Corrupter still seems overpowered though.
At the time there was the XWAUCP v1.5 available for download.
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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:20 pm

However, as I mentioned in this last post (https://www.xwaupgrade.com/phpBB3/viewt ... n&start=29 ) of the topic where the bugged mission had been discussed at the time, there is still a case where the Jericho "departs" from Region 2 and does not return to the Liberty.

I've just opened my fixed mission now and I can tell you exactly what this case is: it's when Global Group 1 (the TIEs), Global Group 7 (the static defenses), M-CRVs Plank and Broadside and ISDII Corrupter are all destroyed before both PLT/1 Hurrim Base and SHU Lendros are boarded.
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Jaeven
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Post by Jaeven » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:29 pm

Mark_Farlander wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:20 pm
However, as I mentioned in this last post (https://www.xwaupgrade.com/phpBB3/viewt ... n&start=29 ) of the topic where the bugged mission had been discussed at the time, there is still a case where the Jericho "departs" from Region 2 and does not return to the Liberty.

I've just opened my fixed mission now and I can tell you exactly what this case is: it's when Global Group 1 (the TIEs), Global Group 7 (the static defenses), M-CRVs Plank and Broadside and ISDII Corrupter are all destroyed before both PLT/1 Hurrim Base and SHU Lendros are boarded.
I'm not entirely sure about that. This would force the Jericho to interrupt its order to hyper back to Region 1, but then have an active order of engaging anything that's not Team Rebel. Once that order is done it should still cycle back to its only unfulfilled order, namely to hyper back to Region 1.

I've fixed the mission so that the requirement is changed from Jericho returning to Region 1 to just leaving Region 2. That way, even if the Jericho does not arrive in Region 1, so long as it survived the mission, it will still allow the player to complete it.

The mission will require a large overhaul though. There are a lot of issues with it.

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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:31 pm

Interestingly, flying without the "Unlimited Ammo" option enabled is usually enough to avoid this case.
I can fix the jump to order 3 condition of the FRG Jericho to avoid this unfortunate case too.
I just need to fly the mission again and tell if the SHU Lendros gets boarded before the PLT/1 Hurrim Base or vice versa.

The second to be boarded remains in the jump condition, the first will be replaced by a "or ISDII Corrupter must be destroyed".
I will fly the mission now and report back.
I don't judge tactics. The Battle is the best and only Judge.

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Jaeven
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Post by Jaeven » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:36 pm

I'd be careful with that. The problem with the mission is that it allows a certain kind of freedom in which order you do things, but the conditions assume you do them in the order the mission creator did, which is where the mission breaks down.

You can't anticipate in which order the player will disable the base or destroy the defenses, which is why I think the mission will need a large overhaul. That will require lots of condition changes and testing,

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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:38 pm

Jaeven wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:29 pm
Mark_Farlander wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:20 pm
However, as I mentioned in this last post (https://www.xwaupgrade.com/phpBB3/viewt ... n&start=29 ) of the topic where the bugged mission had been discussed at the time, there is still a case where the Jericho "departs" from Region 2 and does not return to the Liberty.

I've just opened my fixed mission now and I can tell you exactly what this case is: it's when Global Group 1 (the TIEs), Global Group 7 (the static defenses), M-CRVs Plank and Broadside and ISDII Corrupter are all destroyed before both PLT/1 Hurrim Base and SHU Lendros are boarded.
I'm not entirely sure about that. This would force the Jericho to interrupt its order to hyper back to Region 1, but then have an active order of engaging anything that's not Team Rebel. Once that order is done it should still cycle back to its only unfulfilled order, namely to hyper back to Region 1.
Have you opened my mission? I've done order reworks to nearly all the Alliance Flight Groups (and even Imperial ones).
Why? Because orders such as "attack any Team but Rebel only if not disabled" make all Dunari's crafts as viable targets.
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Jaeven
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Post by Jaeven » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:39 pm

Dunari's ships are all on Team 1 Rebel, they just have a different IFF code.

As I said, I agree the mission will require a lengthy rework and that's something that will take a bit of time and testing to make sure the mission doesn't break even more.

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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:59 pm

I've fixed the mission so that the requirement is changed from Jericho returning to Region 1 to just leaving Region 2. That way, even if the Jericho does not arrive in Region 1, so long as it survived the mission, it will still allow the player to complete it.
Are you sure the condition "leaving Region N" works this way? If it works this way, then when a craft has no orders to perform and simply "departs" (the Departure event is triggered), when it enters hyperspace it also counts as leaving the region. But the Departure event does not necessarily mean to enter hyperspace. A craft can depart even to another one (hangar).
Jaeven wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:39 pm
Dunari's ships are all on Team 1 Rebel, they just have a different IFF code.
You are right about this.

I see there is a Team 2 "Smugglers" but it is never used for any FGs. So I don't remember why I reassigned said orders.
I probably reassigned orders using GG and GU because at the time the AlliED repository was not investigated as much as it is now.
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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:09 pm

OK, I've found it. It's this.

Bug #6: FRG Jericho destroys PLT/1 Hurrim Base when the base has not been disabled yet.
Solution: Changed the 1st priority order for FRG Jericho from “SS Patrol + attack any Team except Rebel only if not disabled (Primary target) / M-CRV Broadside or M-CRV Plank (Secondary target)” to “SS Patrol + attack Global Group 1 or Global Group 7 (Primary target) / M-CRV Broadside or M-CRV Plank (Secondary targets)”.
Observation: This bug could occur if you didn’t disable PLT/1 Hurrim Base after taking down the Marauder corvettes.

This is why I reassigned the First Order (see the double sense?) of the FRG Jericho.
I had a good idea at the time to keep track of every change I did and why I did it.
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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:15 pm

I know that this would change the targets of FRG Jericho a bit, because it can no longer take down the shields of the station.
But I thought this would have been an acceptable compromise since its contribution is usually modest if you "stay on targets".
Last edited by Mark_Farlander on Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jaeven
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Post by Jaeven » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:19 pm

Mark_Farlander wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:59 pm
I've fixed the mission so that the requirement is changed from Jericho returning to Region 1 to just leaving Region 2. That way, even if the Jericho does not arrive in Region 1, so long as it survived the mission, it will still allow the player to complete it.
Are you sure the condition "leaving Region N" works this way? If it works this way, then when a craft has no orders to perform and simply "departs" (the Departure event is triggered), when it enters hyperspace it also counts as leaving the region. But the Departure event does not necessarily mean to enter hyperspace. A craft can depart even to another one (hangar).
Jaeven wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:39 pm
Dunari's ships are all on Team 1 Rebel, they just have a different IFF code.
You are right about this.

I see there is a Team 2 "Smugglers" but it is never used for any FGs. So I don't remember why I reassigned said orders.
I probably reassigned orders using GG and GU because at the time the AlliED repository was not investigated as much as it is now.
This is why I asked him to test it. If the Frigate still disappears and the mission doesn't complete we know it's because the frigate uses the wrong departure cue, at which point we have the source of the problem and an easy fix. If the mission completes, it's some weird bug where the frigate somehow gets stuck somewhere.

Your second reason is the reason I'm reluctant to fix some of the issues without overhauling the entire mission. The mission is just full of weird conditions.

Just look at the Cloakshape Fighters:
Attack Targets: Global Group 1, None 16

What does that None 16 mean? I have no idea, but changing any of it could break the mission. And this mission is just full of those.

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Post by Darth_Binks » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:28 pm

Man I leave for a few hours and the topic blows up!

I just left on vacation until next week, I'll test when I'm able. Thanks guys!
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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:40 pm

@Jaeven
OK, I've called it an extensive rework, you call it "overhauling the entire mission", but in the end we agree.

None means that there is no target. 16 is simply a number. The "None 16" thing does not cause any issue. There is simply no target there.
If you wish you can change that number with no problems.

I can speculate why that 16 is still there: the original mission designer changed the target at the last moment to None.
He forgot to "remove" that number, I mean he forgot to set it to "none" or "0".
For example from "Flight Group 16" it has become "None 16", but this does not cause issue.
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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:51 pm

If the Departure via hyperspace also counts as "leaving region" is a thing I absolutely need to investigate as it's crucial in mission logic.

Sorry I'm tired and after a day at work in a Galaxy Far, Far too Near called Milky Way I'm going to bed now.
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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:43 pm

No. Departure via hyperspace does not count as "leaving region". I've reported this fact here: https://www.xwaupgrade.com/phpBB3/viewt ... 9&start=99
I don't judge tactics. The Battle is the best and only Judge.

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Post by Darth_Binks » Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:18 am

Mark,

Your fixed mission worked well, I was able to finish and the Jericho ended up actually hypering to the Liberty. Setting the Corrupter back further made stopping it feasible, it still took out every starfighter in the area before I was able to disable and blow it up. Capitol ship AI is very strong against starfighter attack, I wonder if speeding up missiles and torpedoes would even things up a bit?

Jaeven, I'll try your fix next to help troubleshoot the frigate issue.
Blue Zoidberg: As for me I design mansions and then live in them. I'm lying! I'm an apalling failure!<BR>Red Zoidberg: Me too! A big fat one.<BR>-The Farnsworth Parabox, Futurama

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