ISDII breaks everything

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ISDII breaks everything

outerexodus1
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Post by outerexodus1 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:52 am

Is it just me, or does every mission that involves an ISDII fail to allow completion unless you cheat? Supply Rebels With Bacta, ISDII destroys every single Rebel ship escaping. Unless I cheat and drive it off, mission always fails. Then I have to attack the Vasudra myself to enable completion. Evacuate Kothlis Base fails every time because the ISDII destroys the Rebel Platform before docking operation is completed, again, unless I cheat and drive it off. Just tonight on stream I was unable to complete the next mission to rescue the Razor because the ISDII destoys the Bothan Dreadnaught before it hypers to the Independence. Going to try my hand at Allied again and see if I can manage to replace every instance of an ISDII with a I and see if that helps. Did I install something incorrectly or did they just get a buff?

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Driftwood
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Post by Driftwood » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:01 am

EDIT: Just looked into it, the Totally Games Opt has 72 hardpoints, the XWAUP opt has 119 hardpoints. This is possibly a factor in the station and ship dying faster than the original game if all the hardpoints are all being used in mission, and all equally in range. However, that said it's entirely unlikely ALL of them are in range all at once.

Try moving the ISD farther away to buy more time for the respective objects being destroyed too fast so less hardpoints are in range (I'd recommend this), or systematically reduce the hardpoints to 72. (less desirable for end user, too likely to break something).

The team will need to discuss the best way to resolve these issues going forward, though personally I'd prefer not to reduce hardpoints.
Last edited by Driftwood on Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Jaeven
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Post by Jaeven » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:08 am

I played through the campaign a few months ago and did not have any of those issues except the Kothlis one. That one has an issue with the fact the GR-75 transports are too close to the base. When the Star Destroyers blow them up, the proximity damage causes the station to explode and thus CRV Razor.

outerexodus1
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Post by outerexodus1 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:10 am

Yeah, it's changed since. Been playing through the campaign on Twitch this week and last. Every time there's an ISDII the mission fails because it's like it's range has been buffed or something.

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Driftwood
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Post by Driftwood » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:11 am

I never experienced either issue myself, but I could see the proximity damage being a more likely issue since all 119 lasers are likely not going to be firing due to both range to target (not all of them are in range), and other ships firing lasers in the region further limit the amount of laser projectiles the ISD can generate due to the hard capped laser limit per region by the game engine.

outerexodus1
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Post by outerexodus1 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:12 am

Thanks Driftwood. I'll mess around in Allied.

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Post by outerexodus1 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:13 am

Could it be that more of the lasers are on the nose of the ship or something? I could try linking my VODs on Twitch if you'd like to see the issue firsthand?

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Jaeven
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Post by Jaeven » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:13 am

Out of curiosity, what difficulty are you playing on? Also, did you enable laser count to 256 when you installed XWAU? If so, that would explain why the mission breaks.

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Post by Driftwood » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:14 am

I believe max range for turbolasers ingame is approximately 6km, I'd suggest trying to move 50% of the hull beyond the 6km mark, only leaving the tip or one side of the ship within the 6km range.

From what I remember the fighters always were more of a threat to the freighters, station, and player, than the star destroyer. I don't fear capital ships much, they're not particularly mobile.

And yeah, Jaeven is right, difficulty could be a factor (AI accuracy, aggression, ect) if you have the 256 laser patch enabled, disable that as it's been discovered to cause almost all of the mission balance issues we've experienced. It's cool, I'd love it enabled myself, but that would require a total rebalance of every game mission and I don't think we're prepared to deal with that just yet, and since the AI point defenses against warheads are tied to laser accuracy double the laser limit detrimentally affects this game function also.

You can link your videos as you like, I wouldn't mind seeing them either way.

If you wind up fixing any missions please send them to the XWAUP team for review as we may want to include functioning mission fixes yet undeveloped into the update patches.
Last edited by Driftwood on Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

outerexodus1
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Post by outerexodus1 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:17 am

Jaeven, I did at first have the laser count increased, still had the issue when I changed it back. Bacta Delivery had the ISDII just slaughter everything. I handled the fighters just fine, it was the ISDII that did me in until I said screw it and forced it to retreat. Had to fire on the Vasudra myself when that happened. Medium difficulty.

Drift, I don't normally fear capital ships much either, but the three missions I mentioned are just screwing me over because of the ISDII.

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Post by outerexodus1 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:19 am

Here's the video from last week where the issues with Rebel Rendezvous (bacta delivery) start. Timestamped. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/485151692?t=01h30m31s

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Post by outerexodus1 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:22 am

i *think* the first couple attempts have the 256 lasers enabled, then i change it.

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Post by Driftwood » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:23 am

PRetty much scratch what I perceive as the likely balance issue, though it certainly couldn't hurt to turn down the difficulty level to easy for this one.

Though, at this point I'm having my doubts that it's the star destroyer that's the problem. I'm thinking it's one of the other strike craft involved in the mission. Perhaps Jaeven can provide his findings, I've not got the time to run the scenario again tonight and give a thorough suggestion.

I'm looking through AlliEd and the destroyer doesn't look like it's ever close enough in range to sufficiently damage the station, it starts at 10-13km out from the target and barely gets in turbolaser range from what I'm seeing. Also and perhaps more importantly it's ordered to disable the station and/or vasudra, not destroy. So it's definitely not the star destroyer causing your problem in this mission.
However the TIE Bombers are ordered to destroy the station, with the gunboats set to destroy the Vasudra and/or IFF azzameen.

I'm thinking you need to change your tactics because I've literally never had the station destroyed myself through collateral or direct damage. Focus on the bombers and gunboats alternately, ignore anything else you can. Try to intercept the torpedos or rockets the bombers launch at the station and shoot those with your lasers, turret target the bombers. Hit the gunboats when they get in range.

Ignore the lancers. Ignore the destroyer. The bombers are what is almost certainly killing the station. You have to disrupt their strike missions and dodge the gunboats. The big ships are distracting you from your priority targets.

Don't drain your shield regen, turn it to at least increased charge if not maximum. You're going to be tanking damage more than anything, but avoid taking missile hits. The gunboats are more maneuverable and being such a target rich environment you're just in a bad spot for trying to avoid all incoming damage. Missiles are going to be your enemy, followed by ion cannons if your shields drop.

Kothlis is probably a range issue, but lets address this mission first.
Last edited by Driftwood on Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

outerexodus1
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Post by outerexodus1 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:24 am

Easy didn't fix it either, the ISDII still killed everything. But will report results when I mess with Allied. o7

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Post by outerexodus1 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:49 am

The station being destroyed in the Bacta mission isn't the problem. The problem is that all of the rebel craft that are retreating get destroyed by the ISDII before they can retreat. This is probably just a range issue as well. As I said earlier, I successfully intercept all the bombers and ATR's, but one of the requirements for mission completion is to get 66% of the base personnel evacuated, which I wasn't able to do because the ISDII slaughtered them all.

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Post by outerexodus1 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:07 am

Ok... AlliED isn't working... Access violations, won't save preferences for directories... I'll have to try again another night...

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Post by ual002 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:13 pm

I had to modify the bacta delivery mission to actually complete it about a month ago. I had to alter the percentage of ships required to survive to complete the mission because I was always either shy just a single ship or, totally botched.

I never narrowed down the cause, but yea.
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Jaeven
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Post by Jaeven » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:13 pm

I just finished the mission on hard. As far as I could see, the ISDII wasn't the problem. Sure, it would destroy ships once they got close, but most Rebel ships had escaped by that point. Will upload it on youtube to show the findings.

Imho the biggest issue in that mission is that you absolutely must protect the Light Calamari Cruiser for as long as possible. Once that thing goes down, the TIE Bombers starting going for ships that cannot, even remotely, defend themselves. As such I think the key is to focus, whatever the cost, on the TIE Bombers. Do not engage anything else until the TIE Bombers are gone. Generally speaking, TG respected the canon capabilities of Star Wars ships. An ISD generally carries six squadrons worth of TIEs, of which two, at the most, will be Bombers. That means you have a reasonable guess as to how long and how many TIE Bombers you have to kill before you can focus on other ships.

If you don't mind, I'd give you some other pointers from what I saw. First, don't redirect your shields to engines. The added maneuverability doesn't gain you that much, and whenever you fly a YT-series, your main strength will always be the turrets. That said, if some TIE Bombers slip past you, absolutely put everything into the engines to intercept them ASAP.

Second, when you're facing an onslaught mission like that, don't be shy to use the ion cannons to disable ships instead of destroying them, as it's generally faster.. Also, on lower difficulties it is possible to destroy hardpoints of capital ships even if their shields are up. That will allow you slowly disarm or cripple them. This will not work on hard though.

Finally, even firing a few shots will force a capital ship such as the ISD to return fire at you, meaning they'll have fewer guns available to attack other ships.

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Post by Jaeven » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:48 pm

Here's the video I mentioned above:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvjGcLo ... e=youtu.be

You'll notice I actually forgot about a couple of TIE Bombers that were able to hammer CRL Shadow. If I'd been more attentive and prevented that damage, Shadow probably would have been able to escape.

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Post by outerexodus1 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:03 pm

I just... I don't know. I'm having a completely different experience than you just described. Just played it again, infinite ammo invincibility, on medium, slaughter every single bomber as it left the ISDII, killed the ATR's, left the ISDII alone, and I still only reached 14% evacuated because the ISDII killed everthing. According to XwaExePatcher I don't have the laser increase allowed. Don't know any other difference.

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Post by Jaeven » Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:26 pm

I don't think there should be a difference beyond audio and visuals, but maybe there's a discrepancy between XWAU and DSCUP? I cannot see why that would be the case, but maybe try installing DSCUP, and see if the ISD still murders everything. I had a fresh install just a few hours ago and completed the mission on hard without much trouble.

That's the only thing I can think of that would cause such a major discrepancy between our mission experiences.

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Post by outerexodus1 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:31 pm

You using DSCUP?

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Jaeven
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Post by Jaeven » Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:49 pm

Yeah, that's the one I'm using.

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Post by outerexodus1 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:02 pm

Also... If you don't mind me asking, how did you get all the options in the launch hangar to work? Switch craft, beam, ect.?

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Post by Darksaber » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:48 pm

Jaeven wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:26 pm
I don't think there should be a difference beyond audio and visuals, but maybe there's a discrepancy between XWAU and DSCUP?
There is no difference in the 2 packs

Which the the actual abbreviation are DSUCP and XWAUCP

Darksaber's Ultimate Craft Pack = DSUCP
X-Wing Alliance Upgrade Craft Pack = XWAUCP

Lol DSCUP sounds like a bra size :lachtot:
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