Community project: AlliED "unknowns" repository

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Re: Community project: AlliED "unknowns" repository

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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:36 pm

Apart from what triggers the "must leave region" condition and what does not, the interesting fact is that there is a problem in how the "Failed mission" outcome is managed.
If the Flight Group (or Global Group) you need to "leave region N" because of a FG Goal or Global Goal gets destroyed before the objective is achieved, then you do not fail.
I mean you do not get "Outcome: Loss" even if you are supposed to get it. It simply does not trigger with a Goal that uses the "must leave region #N" condition.
That's why for example in B0M6, the mission where you have to evacuate the Hospital, you do not get "Outcome: Loss" when more than 33% of the Alliance crafts are destroyed.

I'm afraid this problem is due to poor design in the game engine.
I don't judge tactics. The Battle is the best and only Judge.

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ual002
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Post by ual002 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:16 pm

I have also been experimenting with hyper to region and fly home waypoints, given that with the new sfoils hook a Bwing Uwing or Xwing can be encountered in sfoils close configuration if that order is used. I was trying to set a jump to order "disabled" condition if the bwing was dropped to 25 percent hull, but I'm starting to think you cannot jump to order if the given order is a hyper or fly home type.

The idea being that since a TIE does not have ion cannons, he could attack a ship long enough to force a surrender.
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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:50 pm

That's what I forgot to write in the "Orders" files for the AlliED section of the Mod-Wiki: orders preventing a Flight Group from performing other orders through jump conditions.
Will be added soon.
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keiranhalcyon7
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Post by keiranhalcyon7 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:52 pm

@ual002 Check out B3M7, in which you do exactly that in an A-Wing.

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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:32 pm

Just checked B3M7. There is surely an ambiguous situation in Region 2: Order 3 is "Hyper to Region #3" with jump condition "SHU AA-23 must leave Region #2".
Order 4 is "Hyper to Region #1" with jump condition "ATR Storm must leave Region #2".
As you can see if you are successful and the Storm Unit returns to the Liberty (first it leaves Region #2), then both those jump conditions become true at the same time.

As far as I've discovered till now, in these cases the order priority counts.
However, there is no problem because... he can. He has this power! Because he's the player, not a spam droid.
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ual002
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Post by ual002 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:51 pm

keiranhalcyon7 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:52 pm
@ual002 Check out B3M7, in which you do exactly that in an A-Wing.
I will thanks.
Mark_Farlander wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:50 pm
That's what I forgot to write in the "Orders" files for the AlliED section of the Mod-Wiki: orders preventing a Flight Group from performing other orders through jump conditions.
Will be added soon.
Dope. That would be helpful.
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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:02 pm

I've mentioned this thing for the "Hyper to Region" and the "Disabled" orders, but I don't exclude we will find others in the future.
By the way, the difference between these 2 orders is that for "Disabled" there is an exception (to the exception): the "Self-Destruct" order or another "Disabled" can still be triggered.
Last edited by Mark_Farlander on Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ual002
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Post by ual002 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:58 pm

Mark, do you have the WIP order section I can review? I wanna solve this jump to order thing somehow.

My goal is to be able to change the orders of a flightgroup with closed sfoils based on a trigger so I could say, intercept a flight of bwings and as I get closer, they change to an attack order and open sfoils.

As it is now I have to sort out how to make them change from a hyper to region or fly home order to something else... if its even possible.

Alternatively, it might be possible to use the same ini sfoils closed in hyperspace config setting to say change the "circle waypoints" order to have the same effect. But that would be up to Jeremy.

EDIT: I read up on the WIP wiki stuff, and yes you did cover that the departure order is irrevocable, so the only way to do what I was hoping was if the closed cruise sfoils could be tied to another order like "circle waypoint"
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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:17 am

ual002 wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:58 pm
I read up on the WIP wiki stuff, and yes you did cover that the departure order is irrevocable, so the only way to do what I was hoping was if the closed cruise sfoils could be tied to another order like "circle waypoint"
The Departure is not an order, it's a condition-triggered event.
Though you reminded me a relevant fact to explore: it "should be" that the Hyper to Region order not only prevents AI-controlled crafts from triggering orders with jump conditions, but it also prevents them from triggering the Departure event immediately. This would contradict the logic of the priority to the Departure event over any order though, so it's highly improbable.
But if you can test it by setting a craft to "Hyper to Region 2" and then triggering the Departure event while she's still in normal space, you would help me to load this (maybe) exception.
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ual002
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Post by ual002 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:05 am

If I set the order to Hyper to Region 2, and the departure condition to 0 shields, how would I know anything changed? Maybe set the depart condition to fly home to a ship within the current region?
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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:48 am

OK, I did this test with CORT Selu
Departure condition: Selu at 50% shields (and of course I attacked her)
Yes, the Hyper to Region order prevents the Departure event from triggering immediately as soon as the related condition becomes true.
The interesting fact is that the "Pick up/Bag" order does the same thing.

Of course the Departure event triggers as soon as the craft is in the new region (so after performing the Hyper to Region order).

Or as soon as the craft has picked the object (after performing the "Pick up/Bag" order).
Last edited by Mark_Farlander on Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ual002
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Post by ual002 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:35 am

Mark_Farlander wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:48 am
OK, I did this test with CORT Selu
Departure condition: Selu at 50% shields (and of course I attacked her)
Yes, the Hyper to Region order prevents the Departure event from triggering as soon as the related condition becomes true.
The interesting fact is that the "Pick up/Bag" order does the same thing.

Of course the Departure event triggers as soon as the craft is in the new region (so after performing the Hyper to Region order).

Or as soon as the craft has picked the object (after performing the "Pick up/Bag" order).
That's interesting. Damn shame that hyper to region order is irrevocable.
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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:39 am

ual002 wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:35 am
Mark_Farlander wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:48 am
OK, I did this test with CORT Selu
Departure condition: Selu at 50% shields (and of course I attacked her)
Yes, the Hyper to Region order prevents the Departure event from triggering as soon as the related condition becomes true.
The interesting fact is that the "Pick up/Bag" order does the same thing.

Of course the Departure event triggers as soon as the craft is in the new region (so after performing the Hyper to Region order).

Or as soon as the craft has picked the object (after performing the "Pick up/Bag" order).
That's interesting. Damn shame that hyper to region order is irrevocable.
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I don't judge tactics. The Battle is the best and only Judge.

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