Combat Multiview Display in the Dynamic Cockpit

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Combat Multiview Display in the Dynamic Cockpit

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BenKenobi
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Post by BenKenobi » Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:12 pm

Hello,

Been using the Dynamic Cockpits for a while now, very happy with the improvement on the Sensor Visibility, but I do have remarks about the visibility of the Combat Multiview Display.

To start with the A-Wing, the CMD is partially covered by the target selecting keys hiding information on the selected target. This is very visible in Battle 4 Mission 2 where you have to identify the transports (which turn out transporting iron for the build of the Death Star) with this new CMD layout you can no longer see what cargo a ship is transporting.
Also, the targeting-cover is covering information, making the text unreadable.
Schermafbeelding 2020-04-18 om 16.20.19.png

In an earlier version the whole cockpit was a lot larger and the texts were also better readable, I still had an old screenshot, you can see the difference
Schermafbeelding 2020-04-06 om 17.08.01.png

In the X-Wing, the CMD there are some bezels hiding information and the right side is angled making it smaller. When selecting a component (such as a Shield Generator) the text becomes unreadable.
Schermafbeelding 2020-04-18 om 16.14.56.png

I've just did a little run in the Z-95 Headhunter and it seemed the Aspect Ratio of the CMD was incorrect.

I post these remarks as positive constructive criticism, it's not pointing at people telling them they did a poor job, I really appreciate all the work that is being done in peoples spare time without compensation. I really like the eye candy but for me the form should follow function not the other way around.

Now for my questions;

Is it possible for a user to move/hide the target selection buttons for the Active Cockpit in the A-Wing or does that have to be changed in the model?
Is it possible for a user to get the bigger display of a cockpit (like the earlier A-Wing)?
Is it possible for a user to hide the bezels in the X-Wing?
Is it possible for a user to change the size/aspect ratio of the CMD section?

Thanks!

Edit:
I just opened Awing-targeting cover.png in an editor and see the image has an opacity of 40% but in my screenshots it seems solid.

Is that a bug or a misconfiguration on my side?
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Darksaber
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Post by Darksaber » Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:03 pm

I totally agree, and I would go as far as saying if your going to go for Dynamic Active Cockpits, they should have resembled something like the old XvT cockpits, this seems to be the route XWVM is going for
XvTAwingCockpit.jpg
XvTBwingCockpit.jpg
XvTXwingCockpit.jpg
XvTYwingCockpit.jpg
XvTTieCockpit.jpg
Just saying :)
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BenKenobi
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Post by BenKenobi » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:09 pm

A post by by Ace Antilles in the Z-95 HEADHUNTER VER 3.1 topic confirms my suspicion, the Aspect Ratio of the CMD is incorrect: https://xwaupgrade.com/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 06#p165406

Part of his screenshot:
Schermafbeelding 2020-04-18 om 20.08.12.png

In his screenshot you can also see the distance and component are hardly readable.
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blue_max
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Post by blue_max » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:53 pm

BenKenobi wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:12 pm
Is it possible for a user to move/hide the target selection buttons for the Active Cockpit in the A-Wing or does that have to be changed in the model?
Is it possible for a user to hide the bezels in the X-Wing?
The OPT has to be modified to hide these elements.
Is it possible for a user to get the bigger display of a cockpit (like the earlier A-Wing)?
You can try two things. The easiest is to change the FOV. Try Ctrl+Alt+Shift + Right/Left Arrow, that might help a little bit.
The second thing is to change the POV (the place where the camera sits inside the cockpit) using MXvTED.
Is it possible for a user to change the size/aspect ratio of the CMD section?
Yes, open the DC file and tinker with the uv_coords a little bit. To apply the changes just press Ctrl+Alt+L.
For the specific case of the Z-95, I already fixed the aspect ratio of the targeting computer (BTW, I didn't
notice the aspect ratio until I targeted a round object -- it's not that obvious otherwise).

Code: Select all

;1
[Z-95Cockpit.opt,TEX00087]
cover_texture = DynamicCockpit\Z-95-targeting-cover.png
cover_texture_size = 256,256
uv_coords    = TARGETING_COMPUTER_SRC, 5,215, 250,55; 0x0
erase_region = TARGET_AND_LASERS_REGION
EDIT: I just uploaded the whole DC file, since that may be easier: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rlim7qydweul9 ... it.dc?dl=0
I just opened Awing-targeting cover.png in an editor and see the image has an opacity of 40% but in my screenshots it seems solid.
It may appear solid due to the effects of the shading and lights; but the opacity should be the same.

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keiranhalcyon7
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Post by keiranhalcyon7 » Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:34 pm

Maybe the opacity should be reduced down to something more like 10%, then? Or color adjusted - the targeting overlays look fine in the X-Wing and Z-95.

Darksaber, minor quibble - that Y-Wing cockpit appears to be from xwing95, not XvT. XvT didn't have that CMD view. :D

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BenKenobi
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Post by BenKenobi » Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:14 am

Thanks for the suggestions @blue_max I will try changing the FOV and see if I can improve some with fiddling with the uv_coords.

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Trevor
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Post by Trevor » Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:38 pm

The second thing is to change the POV (the place where the camera sits inside the cockpit) using MXvTED.
or use the arrow keys if you have

Code: Select all

keyboard_lean = 1

; If sticky_lean is set to 0, then the cockpit will return to its home position
; when the arrow keys are released. If set to 1, the position will stick where
; you leave it. Press the dot key twice to reset your position.
sticky_lean = 1
The only thing is preserving such settings (or at least reading them for using in mxvted

Trev

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BenKenobi
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Post by BenKenobi » Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:19 pm

blue_max wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:53 pm
BenKenobi wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:12 pm
Is it possible for a user to move/hide the target selection buttons for the Active Cockpit in the A-Wing or does that have to be changed in the model?
Is it possible for a user to hide the bezels in the X-Wing?
The OPT has to be modified to hide these elements.
In another post I saw @DTM mention he was gona look at the CMD so I hope this gets addressed too.
Is it possible for a user to get the bigger display of a cockpit (like the earlier A-Wing)?
You can try two things. The easiest is to change the FOV. Try Ctrl+Alt+Shift + Right/Left Arrow, that might help a little bit.
The second thing is to change the POV (the place where the camera sits inside the cockpit) using MXvTED.
I've tried the Ctrl+Alt+Shift + Arrow keys and it improved a bit, to get the CMD in the same size as the HUD isn't really usable though.
Z-95 interior view.png
Z-95 exterior view.png
Is it possible for a user to change the size/aspect ratio of the CMD section?
Yes, open the DC file and tinker with the uv_coords a little bit. To apply the changes just press Ctrl+Alt+L.
For the specific case of the Z-95, I already fixed the aspect ratio of the targeting computer (BTW, I didn't
notice the aspect ratio until I targeted a round object -- it's not that obvious otherwise).

Code: Select all

;1
[Z-95Cockpit.opt,TEX00087]
cover_texture = DynamicCockpit\Z-95-targeting-cover.png
cover_texture_size = 256,256
uv_coords    = TARGETING_COMPUTER_SRC, 5,215, 250,55; 0x0
erase_region = TARGET_AND_LASERS_REGION
I've downloaded the file, Aspect Ratio is better, but still seems to bit a bit off, see the screenshots above.
I also looked at the A-Wing, looks like the Aspect Ratio on that one is also off.
A-Wing Aspect Ratio.png
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BenKenobi
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Post by BenKenobi » Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:21 pm

Had to split my reply as I can only add 3 images to a post
EDIT: I just uploaded the whole DC file, since that may be easier: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rlim7qydweul9 ... it.dc?dl=0
I just opened Awing-targeting cover.png in an editor and see the image has an opacity of 40% but in my screenshots it seems solid.
It may appear solid due to the effects of the shading and lights; but the opacity should be the same.
I don't think that's the case. I've replaced the target cover with the X-Wing cover and the Z-95 cover. The X-Wing cover is better, but when you look closely you can see there's also some 100% black visible (in the point under the Liberty for example). The Z-95 cover seems to be the best amongst those 3. (I've tried several settings and angles when making those screenshots, I didn't see any difference when shades or lights on the CMD changed.)
A-Wing with A-Wing target cover.png
A-Wing with X-Wing target cover.png
A-Wing with Z-95 target cover.png
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DTM
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Post by DTM » Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:18 pm

Thanks for the criticism: the dynamic cockpits are new for this game. An unexpected opportunity that we seized, to improve this fantastic game. I start by saying, that creating a dynamic cockpit is not like drawing a 2D cockpit image. It is much more complex, because while modeling you never have the perception of what the pilot will see from his point of view. These cockpits are three-dimensional and the three-dimensionality does not grant perspective tricks, which can be easily applied, as in the images posted by Darksaber.

Despite this, I am very satisfied with the results achieved so far, but which can/must still be improved. As I said, some things will be improved to increase playability. However, I have to clarify some aspects of my work.

First of all: I don't like XWing vs Tie Fighter cockpits. They were created in that way because at that time the game resolution was 640x480, or 1024x768 if you were very lucky. If the same dimensions of screens and objects were applied to the three-dimensional cockpits of modern games, the result would not be worthy of a "flight simulator", but of an "arcade" game. I also don't like cockpits created for XWVM, which seem to me to be set in the universe of Wing Commander, not Star Wars.
I consider X-Wing Alliance to be a flight simulator, like IL-2 Sturmovick, my main reference model. Do you have any idea how bad it would be to fly with a P-51 Mustang, with only two or three instruments as big as melons, instead of having its cockpit reconstructed from historical images? It would be terrible!

Now I will explain why some details, which currently prevent an excellent view of the central display: the cockpits created so far are the result of an internet search for images, in order to create the best possible cockpit. We do not deal with a plane that actually existed (it would be much simpler) but I try to recreate the realism as sensations experienced while watching the Star Wars movies. Fleeting images lasting a few fractions of a second, which convey an idea, a very particular and different style for each spaceship.

So I want to be very brutal: the dynamic cockpit is not for all players. Of course, nobody prevents you from using it, but if you don't have a TrackIR or VR available, I highly recommend you keep the HUD active. Why not??? And I'm not saying a discriminatory thing, because the HUD is a tool that also exists in World War II simulators, to help players who don't have a TrackIR or VR available.

If you are a fan of flight simulators, or car simulators, and you don't have a TrackIR, my first advice is: buy it! It doesn't cost much more than a great Joystick or a useless super video card, and it gives you enormous fun. Trust me, it makes a difference, and I'm not a fan of Natural Point, because they never offered help when we were clamoring for support for XWA.

To conclude: I will never make cockpits that look like those of X-Wing vs Tie Fighter, because that is not the example I want to follow. Certainly many things will have improved, but for my part I will not change direction.

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BenKenobi
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Post by BenKenobi » Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:14 am

Hi DTM, I sure do appreciate all the work you do on the modelling, I understand it's difficult and noting like editing a flat image in photoshop ;) And for the same reason it's not a flat image, its usability diminishes a lot when just using it on a flat monitor so I understand the 'need' for TrackIR or VR. (Will be using Opentrack, waiting for IR leds to arrive)

I am not criticising the placement of the different objects in the cockpit it's impossible to get everything in view, you will indeed en up with the cockpits like XvT and you're effort to go beyond that is great!

I do however hope you will try to not let the cockpits loose usability, in terms of not being able to read information in the CMD, because you want the cockpits to look like the 'real' deal. As you say, finding cockpit images is a bitch and I'm pretty sure no-one will hold it against you when you give up a bit of realism to win on usability, as hard as it is for you to find cockpit images it will be evenly as hard for the ones using it so who will compare them?

Anyway, I do realise it's your project and you make the decisions on what you build and we just have to accept what will be given to us. Just would hate to see you lose motivation to keep up the briljant work you do because people will comment like 'Well, these cockpits look great but are unusable,..... ".

Cheers!

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Post by blue_max » Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:09 pm

BenKenobi wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:19 pm
I also looked at the A-Wing, looks like the Aspect Ratio on that one is also off.
Try this DC file:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1cirhb5x41yvk ... it.dc?dl=0

I had to squash the display vertically a little bit to fix the aspect ratio, so the letters will look a bit smaller, sorry!

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BenKenobi
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Post by BenKenobi » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:27 am

Thanks, will try that settings.

Looks to me the default CMD in the HUD is actually not square but rectangular and the CMD in the Dynamic Cockpits are square.

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Post by keiranhalcyon7 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:38 am

DTM wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:18 pm
I consider X-Wing Alliance to be a flight simulator, like IL-2 Sturmovick, my main reference model
...
So I want to be very brutal: the dynamic cockpit is not for all players.
...
To conclude: I will never make cockpits that look like those of X-Wing vs Tie Fighter, because that is not the example I want to follow. Certainly many things will have improved, but for my part I will not change direction.
See, this is exactly what I was kvetching about last month. DC should be for all players. I view the X-Wing series as higher-tier than an arcade game, but still a game, not a simulation. As such, playability should trump both realism and movie fidelity.

Regardless, I think I've learned enough to tweak these cockpits for personal use. For example, adjusting the cockpit POV Z on the X-Wing from 37 to 35 helps keep the side screens in view without compromising outside visibility too much, and I think I know enough now to move meshes around if I have to.

I was pretty tickled when I saw that you'd added an animated s-foils lever, though. That was a nice touch.

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BenKenobi
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Post by BenKenobi » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:41 am

DTM released a new version of the Z-95 Headhunter (4.1) see: https://xwaupgrade.com/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 50#p165962

He says:
DTM wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:07 am
Many small changes that greatly improve the playability!
Well, I don't think it greatly improved the playability, it improved it massively!

Thanks to listening to the feedback we give and using it to improve your great work @DTM!

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