Battle 1 - Mission 1: Convoy Attack

Here we can have in-depth discussions about which missions need to be adjusted because they are broken either by original design or by XWA models.
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Battle 1 - Mission 1: Convoy Attack

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Ace Antilles

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Post by Ace Antilles » Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:21 pm

This mission has issues due to the Container Transport proving to be tough.

Questions to everyone. Ref this mission.
In it the CTRNS are set to Officer AI skill. The Strike Cruiser is Rookie and others vary.
Does the accuracy and rate of fire get affected by the AI skill or the Opt EXE settings? Can anyone compare the XWAU stats to the TG originals please.

I've edited this mission to make the CTRNS Rookie skill. Obviously that's an easy change.

I've also changed Shuttle Opal group to Blue FG colours. So it should be showing a Rebel Logo now on the fin.

Could people give it a try and see if it makes a big difference or the laser fire is still too high.
Backup your original mission first. Thanks
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Jaeven
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Post by Jaeven » Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:41 pm

Ace Antilles wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:21 pm
This mission has issues due to the Container Transport proving to be tough.

Questions to everyone. Ref this mission.
In it the CTRNS are set to Officer AI skill. The Strike Cruiser is Rookie and others vary.
Does the accuracy and rate of fire get affected by the AI skill or the Opt EXE settings? Can anyone compare the XWAU stats to the TG originals please.

I've edited this mission to make the CTRNS Rookie skill. Obviously that's an easy change.

I've also changed Shuttle Opal group to Blue FG colours. So it should be showing a Rebel Logo now on the fin.

Could people give it a try and see if it makes a big difference or the laser fire is still too high.
Backup your original mission first. Thanks
Accuracy and ROF are both affected by AI skill level. A ship at Rookie and Officer level will generally be unable to deal a coordinated warhead attack, whereas Veteran and up will quite easily intercept even massed torpedoes.

Likewise, at Veteran level and upwards they'll be increasingly effective at nailing strafing ships.

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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:07 pm

Reposting what I wrote in the old section (with some clarifications):

I've just played B1M1 (not edited) both at Medium and Hard difficulty after installing Container Transport v2.2 over a XWAUCP v1.6 installation.
Medium difficulty (CTRNS are Officer AI): the Container Transports (CTRNS) are already very easy to take down. They are OK at Officer AI. That's the vanilla setting.
Of course you have to help the Y-Wings with the CTRNS. Even in the vanilla installation you had to help the Y-Wings with the CTRNS. That's simply part of the mission.
However, with the XWAUCP v1.6 installed the X-Wings and the Y-Wings were all taken down by the Strike cruiser, so I had to destroy half of the convoy alone.
I know that the Strike cruiser was also updated to restore it to the vanilla laser hardpoints, but if you don't put the "New" stick on it, nobody will install it.

Hard difficulty: you will have a hard time, just with every other mission in X-Wing Alliance when played Hard. This is just what David Wessman intended to do though.

The rate of fire gets affected by the AI level indeed, but with some limitations. For example fighters already have the maximum rate of fire at Ace AI.

The AI level also affects the accuracy in the sense that the accuracy is related to the refresh rate of the targeting computer.
I try to better explain this thing: when an AI-controlled craft targets an object and then fires, the shot is directed to the last "tracked" location of the target.
This works regardless of the AI level.

The AI level simply determines the refresh rate of the targeting system. I mean how many times in a second the location of the target is tracked.
Hope to have explained it clearly.
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Ace Antilles

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Post by Ace Antilles » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:24 pm

These missions aren't necessarily the final versions but early tests.
So the more feedback the better. Everyone has their own skills but this mission has the most reported problems so people will be glad to see the back of it.
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BenKenobi
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Post by BenKenobi » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:28 pm

Just flew this mission at medium, with the _Container Transport v2.2_ installed on top of XWAU 1.6.
I first took out the TIE's with my fellow X-Wings and after that helped out the Y-Wings destroying the transports. Just made sure I stayed out of the Strike Cruiser's reach, that's a killer but I guess it's ment to be like that. When the mission finished there were 3 X-wing (including me) and 2 Y-Wings remaining so the Imperial Bastards only killed 2 Y-Wings ;)

I don't think this mission needs extra balancing when you have the Container Transport installed, that's what it needed to balance this mission.

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Ace Antilles

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Post by Ace Antilles » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:32 pm

BenKenobi wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:28 pm
Just flew this mission at medium, with the _Container Transport v2.2_ installed on top of XWAU 1.6.
I first took out the TIE's with my fellow X-Wings and after that helped out the Y-Wings destroying the transports. Just made sure I stayed out of the Strike Cruiser's reach, that's a killer but I guess it's ment to be like that. When the mission finished there were 3 X-wing (including me) and 2 Y-Wings remaining so the Imperial Bastards only killed 2 Y-Wings ;)

I don't think this mission needs extra balancing when you have the Container Transport installed, that's what it needed to balance this mission.
Blowing the Strike Cruiser is a bonus option but not intended as the goal really.
So if you don't get carried away attacking that then you can focus on the mission as you say
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Post by BenKenobi » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:07 pm

Mark_Farlander wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:07 pm
I know that the Strike cruiser was also updated to restore it to the vanilla laser hardpoints, but if you don't put the "New" stick on it, nobody will install it.
This made me download the Strike Cruiser and I flew the mission again on Medium. The Strike Cruiser was easily killed (Yay, got the bonus :D ) now because it didn't fire a single laser blast! I quit XWA, tried it again with the same result! I've rolled back the instal, started the mission again, went straight for the Strike Cruiser again and was fired upon immediately by it! Lucky me ;)

The roll back gave me a strikecruiser.opt with a file date of 23-07-19 16:10 at a size of 7.043kB, no idea how to find a version number.

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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:08 pm

So the Strike cruiser did not fire a single laser blast after installing the latest version. This is strange.
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JeremyaFr
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Post by JeremyaFr » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:35 pm

In the vanilla OPT, the turrets are set to RotaryGunTurret.
In the new OPT (v2.1), the turrets are set to GunTurret.

You can try to modify the meshes type (make a backup of the craft first) and see if it makes a difference.

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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:51 pm

Do I need the latest version of MXVTED to adjust the mesh type?
Forgive me but I'm not much experienced with craft editing.
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Post by Alpha_0-0-0 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:56 pm

Hello

Sorry JeremyaFr, but I have to disagree with you, the new installer or model is v2.2 and it's 3 turrets are set to RotaryGunTurret

It's the original or vanilla model that has the 3 turrets set to GunTurret

You have it the wrong way around :) the RotaryGunTurrets on the new v2.2 ContainerTransport.opt should be set as a GunTurret

thank you

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Post by BenKenobi » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:03 pm

JeremyaFr wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:35 pm
In the vanilla OPT, the turrets are set to RotaryGunTurret.
In the new OPT (v2.1), the turrets are set to GunTurret.

You can try to modify the meshes type (make a backup of the craft first) and see if it makes a difference.
I don't think that is the cause of the issue, I've opened the 23-07-19 version (the one that fires lasers) in the OptEditor and they are the GunTurret type in that version. The vanilla version (19-02-99) does show RotaryGunTurret

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Post by Alpha_0-0-0 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:13 pm

Hello

BenKenobi sorry but I have to disagree with you also, the ContainerTransport.opt from the XWA Disk the turrets are set as GunTurrets not RotaryGunTurrets

thank you

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Post by BenKenobi » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:15 pm

Alpha_0-0-0 wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:13 pm
Hello

BenKenobi sorry but I have to disagree with you also, the ContainerTransport.opt from the XWA Disk the turrets are set as GunTurrets not RotaryGunTurrets

thank you
No problem, but we are not talking about the Container Transport, we're talking about the Strike Cruiser. :D

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Post by Alpha_0-0-0 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:21 pm

Hello

BenKenobi, my apologises too, I read the first few posts, skipped a couple and thought JeremyaFr was still talking about the Container Transport :(

I think I had step back from this :)

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Post by BenKenobi » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:28 pm

Alpha_0-0-0 wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:21 pm
Hello

BenKenobi, my apologises too, I read the first few posts, skipped a couple and thought JeremyaFr was still talking about the Container Transport :(

I think I had step back from this :)
No problem!

@Moderators, can any of you delete the 'off topic' post to keep it clean for future reference? Thanks!

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keiranhalcyon7
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Post by keiranhalcyon7 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:32 pm

I thought it was determined that the reason the bugged version of the Strike Cruiser couldn't fire was that the turret locations were recessed into the hull: viewtopic.php?p=159934#p159934

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Post by BenKenobi » Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:51 pm

Looked into the Strike Cruiser a bit deeper, finding a version number is not possible for all versions so I compare them on date and size.
Here's what I found:

Code: Select all

Source				Date		Size (kB)	Remark
Vanilla				19-02-1999	438		Original OPT
XWAU 1.6.37			30-01-2019	6768		Reported problems*
Fix for reported problem*	23-07-2019	7043		Seems to work correct
StrikeCruiserV2.1		21-05-2020	7113		Doesn't fire
*There was a topic with fixes for XWAU 1.6 where (amongst others) a ContainerTransport.opt and StrikeCruiser.opt could be downloaded, I can't find that post anymore in the form it was, it could have been this post.

The post Keiran points to dates from 22-07-2019 so looks to be about the XWAU 1.6 version, just tested that and it fired at me.

So, I'm not really sure what the exact problem is, I do know the StrikeCruiser.opt (23-07-2019) that was available in a topic seems to work correct (at least for me) and that the one available on the download page (21-05-2020) doesn't work (again, at least for me)

Maybe DTM can shed some light on this?

Edit:

The fixed ContainerTransport and StrikeCruiser are mentioned here (26-07-2019): https://www.xwaupgrade.com/phpBB3/viewt ... 10#p161410 (the download link is no longer available) and on 11-06-2020 Darksaber says they can be found in the downloads section. I doubt however that the version in the download section is the same that was available as fix in the rar file.

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Ace Antilles

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Post by Ace Antilles » Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:40 pm

BenKenobi wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:51 pm
Looked into the Strike Cruiser a bit deeper, finding a version number is not possible for all versions so I compare them on date and size.
Here's what I found:

Code: Select all

Source				Date		Size (kB)	Remark
Vanilla				19-02-1999	438		Original OPT
XWAU 1.6.37			30-01-2019	6768		Reported problems*
Fix for reported problem*	23-07-2019	7043		Seems to work correct
StrikeCruiserV2.1		21-05-2020	7113		Doesn't fire
*There was a topic with fixes for XWAU 1.6 where (amongst others) a ContainerTransport.opt and StrikeCruiser.opt could be downloaded, I can't find that post anymore in the form it was, it could have been this post.
The post Keiran points to dates from 22-07-2019 so looks to be about the XWAU 1.6 version, just tested that and it fired at me.

So, I'm not really sure what the exact problem is, I do know the StrikeCruiser.opt (23-07-2019) that was available in a topic seems to work correct (at least for me) and that the one available on the download page (21-05-2020) doesn't work (again, at least for me)
Maybe DTM can shed some light on this?

Edit:
The fixed ContainerTransport and StrikeCruiser are mentioned here (26-07-2019): viewtopic.php?p=161410#p161410 (the download link is no longer available) and on 11-06-2020 Darksaber says they can be found in the downloads section. I doubt however that the version in the download section is the same that was available as fix in the rar file.
Thanks for your findings BenKenobi. You are indeed right and a team member has done some testing and confirmed it.
The v2.1 has an issue it seems with the installer which we will get corrected asap.
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Post by Griffin » Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:21 am

Nice work!

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Post by aceazzameen87 » Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:25 pm

This mission is kicking my butt! I've tested it with the new mission file, and then with the new container cargo ship opt, and yet they still eat the y-wings and my x-wing. I have found one amusing way to destroy one: piss off enough TIEs and then thread the needle in the negative space between the cargo pods and engine. The TIEs follow and will slam into the cargo ship.

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Post by ITKNOTME » Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:55 pm

Ace Antilles wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:21 pm
This mission has issues due to the Container Transport proving to be tough.

Questions to everyone. Ref this mission.
In it the CTRNS are set to Officer AI skill. The Strike Cruiser is Rookie and others vary.
Does the accuracy and rate of fire get affected by the AI skill or the Opt EXE settings? Can anyone compare the XWAU stats to the TG originals please.

I've edited this mission to make the CTRNS Rookie skill. Obviously that's an easy change.

I've also changed Shuttle Opal group to Blue FG colours. So it should be showing a Rebel Logo now on the fin.

Could people give it a try and see if it makes a big difference or the laser fire is still too high.
Backup your original mission first. Thanks
Hi new player here. I was really struggling with this mission . Tried it so many times . I just tried your edited mission and its much better the laser fire is now much more managable. The mission is alot easier now but as it's one of the first missions that seems right to me. thanks alot

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