Bug : Ion cannons
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yes i noticed that, i have a lot of missions where someone have to disable a craft, but instead it get destroyed.
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and this is isn't in the vanilla game I checked
- Forceflow
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Can you give some more information? What version are you playing, what patches are installed and did you change anything in the default settings?
Murphy was an optimist! I am a pessimist!
And always remember that a smile is cheaper than a bullet! (District 9)
Webmaster of the X-Wing Alliance Upgrade Project
And always remember that a smile is cheaper than a bullet! (District 9)
Webmaster of the X-Wing Alliance Upgrade Project
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this video I was playing the game with vanilla and XWAU 2020 no patches and no chages to settings and I just install the old 1.6 and there was no bug
Last edited by Blazingfirestorm on Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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i had this problem with some missions converted to xwa from x-wing series, i checked the mission file with yogeme and everything looks right, but in vainilla version the mission runs perfect.
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SHb66b ... sp=sharing
sorry this is the right file,some ywings have to disable ships but instead it get destroyed.
sorry this is the right file,some ywings have to disable ships but instead it get destroyed.
- Vince T
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You know you can edit posts, don‘t have to delete/repost them
Your ship, Captain. I need a drink. - Vince Trageton
Vince T's X-Wing HQ - where the bad guys get their gear
Vince T's X-Wing HQ - where the bad guys get their gear
- AngeI
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So to elaborate on what BlazingFirestorm has said and experimented with. I first noticed this bug in earlier playtesting of TFTC, but its not exactly what you might expect. We know the order to 'Disable Targets' works in that if a target still has shields, the AI will link both laser and Ions (and use torpedoes if available) to bring down the shields then switch to only Ions to disable the target. This generally works ok if you're directly observing whats going on.
However what we've noticed is that if you are NOT directly observing what's going on, the target is instead destroyed or heavily damaged, as if the AI is still firing its lasers at it. When I first noticed this, I couldn't figure out what was going on because the target already had 0% shields when the mission starts (and is not charging either) so there should be no need to even fire lasers, but when the Y-Wings ordered to disable it came in, they instead destroyed it. However when I went close to observe why they were destroying it, they disabled it just fine with no damage.
We are basically wondering if there is some error in logic here where the AI behaves as if its firing its lasers when not directly observed as part of some game engine calculation (Shall we call this Schrodinger's Ion Cannon? ). We are doing more tests to see if we can for sure narrow down this behaviour.
However what we've noticed is that if you are NOT directly observing what's going on, the target is instead destroyed or heavily damaged, as if the AI is still firing its lasers at it. When I first noticed this, I couldn't figure out what was going on because the target already had 0% shields when the mission starts (and is not charging either) so there should be no need to even fire lasers, but when the Y-Wings ordered to disable it came in, they instead destroyed it. However when I went close to observe why they were destroying it, they disabled it just fine with no damage.
We are basically wondering if there is some error in logic here where the AI behaves as if its firing its lasers when not directly observed as part of some game engine calculation (Shall we call this Schrodinger's Ion Cannon? ). We are doing more tests to see if we can for sure narrow down this behaviour.
- Forceflow
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Strangely enough if you look at the target while it's being disabled and then look away it *looks and sounds* like the attacker only uses the ion cannons but it still damages the target.
Murphy was an optimist! I am a pessimist!
And always remember that a smile is cheaper than a bullet! (District 9)
Webmaster of the X-Wing Alliance Upgrade Project
And always remember that a smile is cheaper than a bullet! (District 9)
Webmaster of the X-Wing Alliance Upgrade Project
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I'll add to AngeI point that I think people are seeing the tree and not the forest this could be happening on all craft that that use ion cannon star destroyers, assualt transports, y-wings, gunboats, stormtrooper transports and so on. it also could explain a lot of balance problems
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Ángel is right, if i observe the ships everything is ok but if not it get destruyed, i was thinking if the order disable target has to do something with proximity factor.
The shrodinger ion canon jajajajaja.
The shrodinger ion canon jajajajaja.
- AngeI
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I have created a quick test mission and can consistently replicate this bug. See below:
https://youtu.be/5q7tXPxylXY
I created a simple setup, a Container Transport with 2 Gunboats on Ace AI skill, set to the order 'Disable Targets'. I did this several times, and each time could replicate the behaviour depending if observed or not by the Player. I've put together 3 runs to show how this works.
Run 1: Observation, behaviour normal
Run 2: Not Observing, bug occurs, drops to 20% health and note how FAST the shield strength tanks compared to Run 1 as if far more firepower is being delivered.
Run 3: Begin not observing, then swing around to observe as shields fall, the bug stops and behaviour returns to normal upon observing.
Distance is not a factor here, it doesn't matter if close or far, as long as the gunboats and the container transport are out of the Players field of view.
https://youtu.be/5q7tXPxylXY
I created a simple setup, a Container Transport with 2 Gunboats on Ace AI skill, set to the order 'Disable Targets'. I did this several times, and each time could replicate the behaviour depending if observed or not by the Player. I've put together 3 runs to show how this works.
Run 1: Observation, behaviour normal
Run 2: Not Observing, bug occurs, drops to 20% health and note how FAST the shield strength tanks compared to Run 1 as if far more firepower is being delivered.
Run 3: Begin not observing, then swing around to observe as shields fall, the bug stops and behaviour returns to normal upon observing.
Distance is not a factor here, it doesn't matter if close or far, as long as the gunboats and the container transport are out of the Players field of view.
- AngeI
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So an update, after some testing I have discovered the cause of the bug. It appears Hook_Weapon_Color.dll is the culprit. Removing this DLL returns this back to normal expected behaviour, but by all means if others can confirm this too just to be sure
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Confirmed this is fix when you delete Hook_weapon_colour.dll
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Thanks Angel, i have been looking for the solution of this bug.
- Ace Antilles
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Thsnk you for finding this issue.
It's being investigated and any fix will be released when possible.
It's being investigated and any fix will be released when possible.
- Will T
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Yeah, this is potentially big.Blazingfirestorm wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:01 pmI'll add to AngeI point that I think people are seeing the tree and not the forest this could be happening on all craft that that use ion cannon star destroyers, assualt transports, y-wings, gunboats, stormtrooper transports and so on. it also could explain a lot of balance problems
There's been an unanswered question for a while about why sometimes the Rebel Hospital in B0M6 gets destroyed, despite Imperial ships only having orders to disable it.
I think this was also affecting the Hurrim Base mission. I think those missions have both had workarounds applied to them in the mega patch, but if this bug can be fixed then it might be possible to roll those missions back to the vanilla setup.
Formerly known as The 95 Headhunter
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ok I deleted hooks weapons color and now the ywing disable the containers so far fine, but in the mission that I put in the previous post there is an ISD with the arrival condition that those containers are attacked and it does not appear only if I change the condition that instead of being attacked they are disable is when the isd appear.
My question is that when you have the order disable ship, the program see that order like an attack too.
My question is that when you have the order disable ship, the program see that order like an attack too.
- Ace Antilles
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This thread is for a certain bug report, not mission editing. Otherwise things can get confusing.batuta wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:34 pmok I deleted hooks weapons color and now the ywing disable the containers so far fine, but in the mission that I put in the previous post there is an ISD with the arrival condition that those containers are attacked and it does not appear only if I change the condition that instead of being attacked they are disable is when the isd appear.
My question is that when you have the order disable ship, the program see that order like an attack too.
Please can you keep any questions ref your own mission to it's own particular post in the Editing section. Thanks.
- JeremyaFr
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Hello,
You can try that:
You can try that:
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tested the new file and there is no bug