Bug : Ion cannons

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Bug : Ion cannons

Blazingfirestorm
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Post by Blazingfirestorm » Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:29 pm


batuta
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Post by batuta » Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:57 pm

yes i noticed that, i have a lot of missions where someone have to disable a craft, but instead it get destroyed.

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Post by Blazingfirestorm » Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:59 pm

and this is isn't in the vanilla game I checked

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Forceflow
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Post by Forceflow » Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:13 pm

Can you give some more information? What version are you playing, what patches are installed and did you change anything in the default settings?
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batuta
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Post by batuta » Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:20 pm

Blazingfirestorm wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:59 pm
and this is isn't in the vanilla game I checked
yes i tried in vainilla and everything is ok.

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Post by Blazingfirestorm » Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:23 pm

this video I was playing the game with vanilla and XWAU 2020 no patches and no chages to settings and I just install the old 1.6 and there was no bug
Last edited by Blazingfirestorm on Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by batuta » Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:28 pm

i had this problem with some missions converted to xwa from x-wing series, i checked the mission file with yogeme and everything looks right, but in vainilla version the mission runs perfect.

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Post by batuta » Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:38 pm

deleted post
Last edited by batuta on Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by batuta » Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:07 pm

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SHb66b ... sp=sharing
sorry this is the right file,some ywings have to disable ships but instead it get destroyed.

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Post by Vince T » Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:47 pm

You know you can edit posts, don‘t have to delete/repost them
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Post by batuta » Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:52 pm

sorry my fault

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AngeI
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Post by AngeI » Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:49 pm

So to elaborate on what BlazingFirestorm has said and experimented with. I first noticed this bug in earlier playtesting of TFTC, but its not exactly what you might expect. We know the order to 'Disable Targets' works in that if a target still has shields, the AI will link both laser and Ions (and use torpedoes if available) to bring down the shields then switch to only Ions to disable the target. This generally works ok if you're directly observing whats going on.

However what we've noticed is that if you are NOT directly observing what's going on, the target is instead destroyed or heavily damaged, as if the AI is still firing its lasers at it. When I first noticed this, I couldn't figure out what was going on because the target already had 0% shields when the mission starts (and is not charging either) so there should be no need to even fire lasers, but when the Y-Wings ordered to disable it came in, they instead destroyed it. However when I went close to observe why they were destroying it, they disabled it just fine with no damage.

We are basically wondering if there is some error in logic here where the AI behaves as if its firing its lasers when not directly observed as part of some game engine calculation (Shall we call this Schrodinger's Ion Cannon? :D). We are doing more tests to see if we can for sure narrow down this behaviour.

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Post by Forceflow » Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:53 pm

Strangely enough if you look at the target while it's being disabled and then look away it *looks and sounds* like the attacker only uses the ion cannons but it still damages the target.
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Post by Blazingfirestorm » Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:01 pm

I'll add to AngeI point that I think people are seeing the tree and not the forest this could be happening on all craft that that use ion cannon star destroyers, assualt transports, y-wings, gunboats, stormtrooper transports and so on. it also could explain a lot of balance problems

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Post by batuta » Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:17 pm

Ángel is right, if i observe the ships everything is ok but if not it get destruyed, i was thinking if the order disable target has to do something with proximity factor.
The shrodinger ion canon jajajajaja.

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AngeI
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Post by AngeI » Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:31 pm

I have created a quick test mission and can consistently replicate this bug. See below:

https://youtu.be/5q7tXPxylXY

I created a simple setup, a Container Transport with 2 Gunboats on Ace AI skill, set to the order 'Disable Targets'. I did this several times, and each time could replicate the behaviour depending if observed or not by the Player. I've put together 3 runs to show how this works.

Run 1: Observation, behaviour normal
Run 2: Not Observing, bug occurs, drops to 20% health and note how FAST the shield strength tanks compared to Run 1 as if far more firepower is being delivered.
Run 3: Begin not observing, then swing around to observe as shields fall, the bug stops and behaviour returns to normal upon observing.

Distance is not a factor here, it doesn't matter if close or far, as long as the gunboats and the container transport are out of the Players field of view.

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AngeI
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Post by AngeI » Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:37 pm

So an update, after some testing I have discovered the cause of the bug. It appears Hook_Weapon_Color.dll is the culprit. Removing this DLL returns this back to normal expected behaviour, but by all means if others can confirm this too just to be sure :)

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Post by Blazingfirestorm » Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:02 pm

Confirmed this is fix when you delete Hook_weapon_colour.dll

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Post by batuta » Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:41 pm

Thanks Angel, i have been looking for the solution of this bug.

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Post by Ace Antilles » Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:04 pm

Thsnk you for finding this issue.
It's being investigated and any fix will be released when possible.
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Will T
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Post by Will T » Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:35 am

Blazingfirestorm wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:01 pm
I'll add to AngeI point that I think people are seeing the tree and not the forest this could be happening on all craft that that use ion cannon star destroyers, assualt transports, y-wings, gunboats, stormtrooper transports and so on. it also could explain a lot of balance problems
Yeah, this is potentially big.

There's been an unanswered question for a while about why sometimes the Rebel Hospital in B0M6 gets destroyed, despite Imperial ships only having orders to disable it.

I think this was also affecting the Hurrim Base mission. I think those missions have both had workarounds applied to them in the mega patch, but if this bug can be fixed then it might be possible to roll those missions back to the vanilla setup.
Formerly known as The 95 Headhunter

batuta
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Post by batuta » Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:34 pm

ok I deleted hooks weapons color and now the ywing disable the containers so far fine, but in the mission that I put in the previous post there is an ISD with the arrival condition that those containers are attacked and it does not appear only if I change the condition that instead of being attacked they are disable is when the isd appear.
My question is that when you have the order disable ship, the program see that order like an attack too.

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Post by Ace Antilles » Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:43 pm

batuta wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:34 pm
ok I deleted hooks weapons color and now the ywing disable the containers so far fine, but in the mission that I put in the previous post there is an ISD with the arrival condition that those containers are attacked and it does not appear only if I change the condition that instead of being attacked they are disable is when the isd appear.
My question is that when you have the order disable ship, the program see that order like an attack too.
This thread is for a certain bug report, not mission editing. Otherwise things can get confusing.
Please can you keep any questions ref your own mission to it's own particular post in the Editing section. Thanks.
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JeremyaFr
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Post by JeremyaFr » Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:29 pm

Hello,
You can try that:

xwa_hook_weapon_color_WIP_2101091825.zip
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Blazingfirestorm
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Post by Blazingfirestorm » Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:51 pm

tested the new file and there is no bug

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