XWA, XWAU and Life!

All things related to Ace's news sections, opts, missions or files.

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XWA, XWAU and Life!

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Post by Ace Antilles » Sun Jan 05, 2003 9:36 pm

<B>XWA is DEAD!! Admit it!</B><BR>I've said it before but I'm saying it again.<P>The interest is still there but the life has gone. Basically we all look on it fondly. A memory of how great it was. No one is really trying to bring it forward anymore. Myself included. And if anyone shows off new stuff it's likely never to be finished! And if you do it had better be an opt or no one gives a damn!<P><B>The XWAU</B><BR>The XWAU died long ago and is barely hanging onto the hope that someone will finish a project.<P>This is not an attack against anyone particular. They all suffer the same problems that I and most people do and I don't blame them.<BR>I'm just going to inform you of some of the goings on here:<P>There has only ever been 1 or 2 polls on the news page. Even though others have been suggested at times. Reason: It's too hard to change!<P>My XWAU vs TG, the new screenshots and the new download page was done by <B>me</B> to try and keep people interested. I've since given up trying as it's a losing cause.<P>The last <B>3</B> opts made were by Darksaber. He helped finish the R-41. That was 3 months ago. SO now he's left you will probably have longer to wait!<P>All the XWAU opts made by Darksaber have been improved and are <B>only</B> available on his site. Making the XWAU out of date.<BR>He offered to update the XWAU if someone with a better connection would do it. No one came to help!<P>It takes a dedicated topic to be made to just get a progress report from members. That always ends up in no progress done anyway!<P>There were no <B>new</B> topics posted in the Private forum over the whole of December.<P>There are currently <B>9</B> opts that could be released to the public!<BR>Some were meant to be improved but will never be. All are playable as I have been using them for years!<P>They are the <B>Corellian Gunship, Assault Frigate, Calamari 1 and 2, Containers A, B & D, Preybird and Imperial Landing Craft.</B><P><I>Where are they?</I> A question often asked.<P>Well the GUN and AFRG both have no LODs but work fine without them! The AFRG was going to be updated by Decoy. But that's not likely to happen. Both highly usable without LOD and the GUN is great!<P>The Containers were waiting for more to be made. Marcos is working on that but how many need to be made before you get them?<P>The Preybird is base only. But still it's better than the TG one!<P>The Calamari's have no LOD and could use them. They are waiting for updates by JM but even you are patient there's no reason you couldn't use these now! You'll be waiting a long time for a new one.<P>The Imperial Landing craft is even an <B>XMOD!!</B><BR>MJT wanted to add a cockpit to it and has since not been seen.<P>On October 14th I posted a topic about Future Releases. In an effort to get these released to you so there wouldn't be long gaps. I asked why can't we release what we've got now or get someone to touch it up? I only got 1 proper answer and that was release them. The rest of the topic was full of progress excuses! Since then nothing.<P>If I went back and reposted on that topic now no doubt you would get something tomorrow! But it shouldn't always come down to 1 or 2 people having to jumpstart a project which everyone must vote on!<P>There is no reason why the ILC can't be released straight away. Except you have a project where no one wants to take charge and make decisions.<P>Wouldn't you mind getting these partially complete opts regulary and then being updated if they ever get done??<BR>I know I would if I was on the public side.<P><I>We need new members you say?</I> Ok:<P>DataDroid went all out to prove he could texture for us. So we gave him the CRV to texture. It took him 6 months to improve over <B>1</B> texture he made!<BR>That was back in September. In October he promised to show us 2 more. We never heard from him about the CRV again.<P>We gave the Preybird to M&M. We haven't seen any new texures or indication of work since October! Recently he said he has been busy and will get back to it soon.<BR>It took Darksaber <B>4</B> days to finish the Shuttle from start to finish!<P>So getting new people will <B>not</B> save the XWAU. We need reliable people who work to a schedule.<P>I don't blame the members. We are the "old school" if you like. We are not the teenagers that a lot of you are. We have lifes, familys and work to do. Improving an old dying game just isn't fun now. :(<P>The lasting of XWAU is slim. If lucky you will get <B>1</B> of the ISD's from Matt. <I>Which are great!</I> After that if you get anything over than the above opts, you will be very lucky indeed!<P><B>The future of XWA?</B><P>The only 1 to make worthwhile additions to XWA (except DS) recently has been <B>Abolisher.</B> But how many people even cared! All people want to see are Opts!<P>Can anyone name me the last opt made (other than DS and XWAU) that was worthy of putting into the game??<BR>I can't, it was so long ago! Yes you get people making them. But CMON they are CRAP! But everyone's too polite to say.<P>If you make anything else then it's a waste of time. Trying to get people to tell you they've used your stuff is like getting blood out of a stone.<P>Projects? How many do you think you'll ever see in game:<BR>Battle of Hoth, ICP, New Jedi, Yavin?<BR>My bet is <B>none!</B> Nothing these days gets opted. It's all very easy to post dxf shots and everyone goes "oooo". But name the last amazing dxf you saw get opted?<BR>People say they can model but not opt. Does anyone help to opt? Not many.<P>Golans, Hyper Buoy, Toscan? I'd be surprised if any get made in the next 6 months if at all!<P>How many of you even play XWA??<BR>Many people admit to not playing it anymore. I know I don't!<BR>I didn't complete my part of the BoY because I had a life to lead! That includes - deaths, work, fun, family, parties. I work 39 hours a week and then come home to work on a project for a dead game? Not my idea of fun!<BR>I've got over 10 great games to finish that XWA kept me from.<P><I>This site?</I><BR>Well this site will continue. But there's little to see in XWA terms.<P>You have all these extra forums now so we can talk about lots more. What happens? Everyone posts everything in the Pilots Lounge!<BR>Usually about "look at this dxf". That you know full well won't get made! All the posts are frying pan fights or other nonsense most of the time too.<P>What's the point?<BR>I don't know! Maybe there isn't one. This has been a time of honesty for me.<BR>I'm not trying to change your mind, that's upto you.<BR>But just admit it that XWA is dying. You can't force people to stay with it. Don't make promises that you know you won't keep. Just post about other stuff and enjoy it while you can.<P>Long may XWAU live as a meeting place and in our hearts.<P>P.S: Flame away if you like. But I hope I answered a lot of nagging questions.<p>[ 05 January 2003: Message edited by: Ace Antilles ]
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Post by Hawk9X » Sun Jan 05, 2003 9:44 pm

well i remember someone telling me their holding them because they were going to be in packs
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Post by Darksaber » Sun Jan 05, 2003 11:35 pm

Well some members wanted to release stuff as it was made, but other stubborn wanted to finish all and release as packs.<P>But to no avail! We haven’t seen anything for at least two months from JM, he told us he was quitting, so I asked if he could post what he had and give someone else a chance to finish them, he piped up with he’ll finish them but to a lower standard, then we never hear from him for sometime, his next post was something about him loosing his job and would have plenty of time to finish the Cals. We haven’t heard of any progress within the last 6 weeks. His only excuse was when I pointed my finger and his reply was it takes time to get back into opting.<P>It's very true what Ace says, people scream out wanting to be members, so we give them a chance to show what they can do, sometimes it turns out ok, so we give them something to textures, but they disappear.<P>Or they have countless threads on a certain Opts, which would take only a month if that to finish, take this Hyper buoy, the thread was started on the 29th November, from what I have seen of it the thing has around 200 faces at the most, how long can a poxy little thing like that take.<P>True its time consuming making the textures, but come off it, when I textured the TIE Phantom, in all it must have took me what? Three weeks, that was for the Exterior and cockpit, and base a total of around 100 textures from scratch, then to opt them another week including tweaks to the model and textures, and they in total have over 10,000 faces.<P>I made the Shuttle in four days from scratch that was the Dxf, textures, opting it and xmod the damned thing that includes my little web design for it also.<P>I'm not getting at anyone; the Hyper Buoy was just one example. <P>One more example this Otis came along, showing us a texture sample, I looked at it and though this kid has potential, so I sent him the Pinook Fighter, and guess what I haven't heard from him since.<P>Please don't get me started on the Preybird, Toscan or Cloakshape it’s just not worth it.<P>So why do you lot think that I’m quitting? It’s not through wanting to make things for XWA, its not that there are plenty of things I could do, it’s the fact that no one else cares if they finish anything, even after 2 or 3 years. So why should I care anymore?<P>Personally, I think what has been release has spoilt you, the higher the quality, the harder it is for someone else to compete to that standard.<P>Plus with the release of far superior games, it hard to keep the interest in XWA going, again it’s not worth it anymore, the interest is dying, just look at XWA Legacy, with the closure of Datamasters, Legacy was supposed to be the hub of the community; it started well but for some unknown reason the Admins decided to sod about with the forum then it died, it picked up a little after the change, again they decided to sod about the forums, any movement you see in there these days, are tumble weeds and a ghostly silence.<P>Have any of you been to Xwingalliance.net lately? That place is the same, the only people you get there are scrotum scratching jerks, spouting nonsense. These forums are turning out to be the same.<P>And you say XWA isn’t dying; you can’t see the rag in front of your eyes, look around you for once!
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Post by Cloud » Mon Jan 06, 2003 2:55 am

I've been with this community since before Datamaster's was shut down (early 2000), and I hate to repeat myself, and I don't know if I'm right, but I'll say it again: <P>The difference between then and now is that then, <B>X-Wing: Legacy</B> was the main meeting place. XW: L was a site for <B>all</B> designers, be it mission builders, utility builders, or opters. Yes, we had a lot of opters, particularly the ones making the famous SFA NCA patch, but the majority of the community were <B>mission designers</B>! Then, attention shifted gradually towards the opting community with the growth of the <B>X-Wing Alliance Upgrade Project</B>. Now, this site focused only on opting. When people starting giving up mission building for opting, the community started dying. <B>Why do we need 100 new opts if we have 0 new missions?</B> <P>Back at XWL, missions were posted all the time, reviews were written for them, and mission editing in general was on a pedestal, not to mention the designers who discovered unknowns in AlliED. Then, as mentioned, attention started shifting towards the XWA UP. <P>Times have changed. We have all these people posting models and DXF's but not one posting about missions and shipsets. Everything's about opts, which would be great if someone somewhere else made missions, but they don't. Now, those who do probably don't care to announce their projects because they think no one will care because "everyone else" care about <B>opts</B>. <P>There are two kinds of models in XWA: Upgrades of existing ones, and additions. Now, the two reasons for downloading additional ships are either for editing purposes, or because they are needed for some campaign or shipset. <B>Nobody downloads and opt simply to play it in Skirmish</B>. Having 100 new opts and 1 new campaign (Ashgard) is like producing 10,000 liters of fuel a year and attempt to export it to a nation with no fuel-based machinery.<P>The XWA UP was, back in its beginning, an attempt by a group of people who probably even back then realised that the community was dying. It was an attempt to get LEC's attention (that, and the petition with 1000 signatures that no one in LEC replied to).<BR> My sad and brutal conclusion is that the X-Wing Alliance Upgrade project, that was meant to save the X-Wing Alliance community, has doomed it by shifting attention away from mission building, which there seems to be about zero interest in. Face it, how many new announcements on missions have there been made in the last few months? I think I can count them on one hand. <P>Well, we have a choice: Either we make and publish missions, or we die. Personally, I'm working on two campaigns, the Laitaria push and the BOH ShipSet. Well, if you can use a modelling program you SHOULD be able to use AlliED. But personally, I think XWA is dying, and that we won't see too many new missions in the future.<P>Note that this is just a general report on the status of the community, not an attack on the XWA UP.

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Post by samsolo » Mon Jan 06, 2003 9:07 am

cloud you've just killed us a bit more, well done, i hope you are proud!<P><BR>as regard the other unreleased opts, i say release them as they are, most of us have upgraded our computers and can cope without LOD's, and it seems that the improvements will never be done, so why not release them, they will still be much better than the originals.<p>[ 06 January 2003: Message edited by: samsolo ]
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Post by Ace Knight 1 » Mon Jan 06, 2003 12:50 pm

Truth hurts doesnt it? ;)
Now We've rewritten history.<BR>The one thing that we found out.<BR>The sweet taste of vindication.<BR>Just turns to ashes in your mouth.<P>Where do we go from here?<BR>And should we really care?<BR>The end is finally here,<BR>God have mercy...

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Post by Specter » Mon Jan 06, 2003 3:16 pm

Bah XWA is dead, i have to agree with Ace and Darksaber...<P>There are still a few interesting projects running (La version integrale) But little project is being made, and people are losing interest...<P>This community was my first community ever but XWA is tough to mod, and the engine is old. Lucas Arts and totally games also never released anything that could radically change thier engine...<P>We have a few programmers left like Defiant who probably made the largest step in opt editing by creating a milkshape plugin but no one cared about it and i dont think that many people making opts are using it...<P>It was fun, now the fun is gone, people are leaving for new communities, or to real life, wich is, the most important thing above all...<P>XWL never really worked, it was hot at the beggining, but rapidly started to die...shit happens...<P>Anyway, pardon my French (See DS! After all these years i took a name that sounds less corny! ;) (Canari)) But i think most people will understand what i am talking about...<P>Oh well...ill guess ill download everything, put it on a cd, and finally try to leave this place too...<P>Oh and uh...kinda ashamed of saying this but i must say DS is the finest man around in the hole, hell look at all the beautiful opts that were released, if there is something i will remember from this place, its probably that...<P>Geez my last post in Ace's forum...what a scary thing to do. ;)<P><A HREF="http://lppilotsco.xwlegacy.net" TARGET=_blank>Completely Spected!</A><p>[ 06 January 2003: Message edited by: Specter ]

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Post by Rich C » Mon Jan 06, 2003 7:58 pm

Regarding the ICP, not much gets done there either, I haven't seen anything new in the private forum for months, I've just built a new comp, and will be finishing OPTing the 2nd ICP surface this week, just to see if anyone cares. But I don't hold out a lot of hope for it. All credit to Vince, he's tried to knock everyone into shape to keep it going, but the members appear to be getting into other things, and putting the ICP at the botom of the pile.<P>XWA isn't dead (in <B>my</B> opinion), but it definitely <B>is</B> dying, and quickly too, people around here are dropping like flies. I agree somewhat with the concept that the XWAU is what did it, as from the beginnings of XWAU it became a "buyers market". Before XWAU, when XW:L actually performed it's duty as a community hub, many people made many different things (OPTs, Missions, Shipsets, etc), and a lot of people wanted to join in and make things, XWA geared people towards receiving, rather than putting in.<BR>I will still model and attempt to make new OPTs, I am quite a proficient mission builder in X-W, T/F and XvT/BoP (if I do say so myself :D), but AlliEd just pisses me off for some reason, so there'll be no missions from me.<P>In conclusion, I hope some people decide to get off their arses and help drag the community out of it's pit, but I won't hold my breath. ;)<p>[ 06 January 2003: Message edited by: Rich C ]
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Post by Cloud » Mon Jan 06, 2003 9:41 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>cloud you've just killed us a bit more, well done, i hope you are proud!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Mind telling me how I did that? I would say telling you to do something instead of whining is constructive rather than destructive. <P>Oh, and as long as someone post here and play the game, it's not dead. But yes, it's dying.

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Post by Azza » Tue Jan 07, 2003 7:55 pm

6 months time eh?<P>I must agree with the pessimists here. After I have textured the bouy, I'm getting Unreal 2003 and leaving.<P>I may sound like a hypocrite, but theres too much talk and not enough do here.<P>And how the fuck do you join the XWAUP team? People offer examples of their work, but people talk about them, but they are never 'officially' admitted! So how the hell can I get into the XWAUP private forum? eh?<P>Grrr...so long, I envy you for valiantly keeping this critcal patient going, and good luck to you all.
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Post by Darksaber » Tue Jan 07, 2003 9:46 pm

I was wondering when you where going to perk up! :)<P>Anyhow in my opinion, to get you into the private forum, where nothing goes on these days, just take a look at the last date someone had anything to say in there!<P>As I was saying to get into the private forum, finish the Hyper Buoy first, and then you will probably be admitted, if anyone in authority cares that is!<P>If not finish it and release it on your own site, all I can offer.<P>Anyhow, while I'm here I'll have another little dig at someone yet again.<P>I'm very surprised that Saxman hasn't yielded his weary head yet, he did put the XWAUP group together, it was his divine inspiration to upgrade the XWA craft, so where is he? Nothing to say Sax? :)<P>And I’m very surprised Force hasn’t said anything as yet, maybe he’s busy, I can’t blame him for that :)
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Post by Ace Antilles » Tue Jan 07, 2003 9:55 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Azza:<BR><STRONG>And how the fuck do you join the XWAUP team? People offer examples of their work, but people talk about them, but they are never 'officially' admitted! So how the hell can I get into the XWAUP private forum? eh?<BR></STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So is that all you wanted to do? Get into the Private Forum, snoop about, grab stuff and then leave! That is why people aren't let in all the time!<BR>We did that with Datadroid and we got nothing from it. DS did it with Otis, nothing! So since being stung many times we are more careful.<P>To be honest Azza. If you finished the Buoy and everyone liked it then maybe you would be in the team. But you need to <B>finish</B> it first!<BR>The same goes for others too. Why should the team give out all it's models and call you members when no one finishes anything? Tell me that?<P>Also everyone thinks the Private Forum is a gold mine of stuff. <B>It's not!</B> It's a dead place where all that gets posted is "I'm still doing it" reports or "i'm busy". Nobody helps each other and everything needs to be voted on. There are no masses of Opts waiting. I've told you whats there and they've been there a long time! Marcos is the only 1 still working it seems.<BR>So if you get access to the Private Forum I think you will be very dissapointed. :roll:
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Post by M&M » Tue Jan 07, 2003 9:57 pm

"We gave the Preybird to M&M. We haven't seen any new texures or indication of work since October! Recently he said he has been busy and will get back to it soon."(ace)<P>Newsflash, look at the Xwau Forum, exterior and base textures are completely done, and i finished them in 2 days from start to finish, if no one is gonna finish the project i could darn well do it myself so, you all worry too much. I'm quite willing to do do textures for at least 3-4 opts, its just a matter of people needing to opt the ships. Anyways, i disagree, the game is old but its still darn fun!

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Post by Ace Antilles » Tue Jan 07, 2003 10:00 pm

I also agree with Rich and Cloud. If there were more campaigns or missions not silly battles then XWA would be more playable. But all we ever got were skirmished to use the next Super Fighter in!<BR>I had all sorts of mission ideas but as Rich said Aliied just pisses you off!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cloud:<BR><STRONG>The difference between then and now is that then, <B>X-Wing: Legacy</B> was the main meeting place. XW: L was a site for <B>all</B> designers, be it mission builders, utility builders, or opters. Yes, we had a lot of opters, particularly the ones making the famous SFA NCA patch, but the majority of the community were <B>mission designers</B>!</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Cloud when was XWL full of mission designers?? If it was where are all these missions! There's only ever been about 4 worth playing in all these years.<BR>I'm not talking about 1 level things either. I mean proper campaigns.<BR>I was going to extend my Battle Of Hoth mission into a whole camapaign. But troubles with Allied doing the simplest things just puts you right off! :mad:
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Post by Rich C » Tue Jan 07, 2003 11:12 pm

I know this is slightly off-topic, but just read and then don't reply to it (unless you're Ace, cos it's his forum :(<BR>Anyway, I've ranted enough, if it works for you, great, but I've given up on it :roll:
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Post by RogueWing » Wed Jan 08, 2003 9:07 am

Here's a small suggestion from me:<BR>You've mentioned that no one uses the new opts that are made in new missions.<BR>Since the majority of new missions seems to be originating with the Emperor's Hammer, why don't you approach them and ask if they'll authorize these particular opts to be used in their missions.<BR>Trust me, we have very few opters, so for the most part we are stuck with having to make do with the standard opts and rarely have the chance to work with new stuff.<BR>Just an idea...
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Post by Darksaber » Wed Jan 08, 2003 5:44 pm

Anyone is free to use the new opts, all that is asked is that credit is given, and if you going to include the new opt, I suggest you use a shipset in gob format that way anyone can install and uninstall that particular shipset.<P>One more thing have a word with Darkhill, see if he would be willing to make a new shipset launcher that is XP compatible not sure if the older ones are
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Post by RogueWing » Wed Jan 08, 2003 7:08 pm

The EH has never used a "shipset" pe se.<BR>What usually happens is that the Readme file just says that a certain opt is needed to fly that particular battle. <BR>Right now, nearly all of our custom opts use a custom installer that Darkhill designed some time back. Those who want to install it manually may, but for those like me who get confused easily, it can be done automatically.<BR>In this way, these opts can stay in our XWA even after we have played the mission and removed those files.<BR>He has also included another installer that works with XP, but I've never used it as I have Win 98.
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Post by Darksaber » Wed Jan 08, 2003 8:53 pm

Ah well if they use there only installer, thats the problem isn't it, if they use there own installer, they would have to host the opts right, sorry thats a no no! I'm afraid!
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Post by Defiant » Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:30 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>One of the things Ford Prefect had always found hardest to understand about humans was their habit of continually stating and repeating the very very obvious, as in <I>It's a nice day</I>, or <I>You're very tall</I>, or <I>Oh dear you seem to have fallen down a thirty-foot well, are you alright?</I> At first Ford had formed a theory to account for this strange behavior. If human beings don't keep exercising their lips, he thought, their mouths would probably seize up. After a few months' consideration and observation he abandoned this theory in favor of a new one. If they don't keep on exercising their lips, he thought, their brains start working. After a while he abandoned this one as well as being obstructively cynical and decided he quite liked human beings after all, but he always remained desperately worried about the terrible number of things they didn't know about.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>-- The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

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Post by JC » Thu Jan 09, 2003 6:36 pm

Why doesn't the EH just sponser the use of the Rebel and Imperial starfighter OPTs from here for their members?

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Post by Geekwithpower » Sun Jan 12, 2003 10:40 pm

I'm going to have to agree with Ace and DS on this one.<P>XWA is dead. I haven't played XWA in more than a year. I've been hanging around other forums, trying to find mods for <B>newer</B> games, like Age of Mythology, Bridge Commander, etc.
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Post by Chris » Mon Jan 13, 2003 8:32 am

May I jump in?<P>I'm going to disagree with Ace and say that the New Jedi Order Project is definitely not dead. <P>It's picking up speed. If we have to slog through rain, shine, or dark of night, we'll finish it. I'm still getting 20 to 40 hits a day at the website, so obviously people want it. As long as people keep visiting, we'll keep working on it. I've just gotten some new material, and hopefully I'll be able to post a progress update soon. Just one more landmark to accomplish before that happens.<P>On the subject of community... XWL is supposedly revamping its website. I'm adopting a wait and see policy on this, but I trust Nob and his staff to do the job. I myself will try to update my website with a few more links to other sites, including the EH TIE Corps missions database. I would respectfully suggest XWAUP and XWL do the same. :) <P>Chris<P>Chris
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RogueWing
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Post by RogueWing » Mon Jan 13, 2003 8:53 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JC:<BR><STRONG>Why doesn't the EH just sponser the use of the Rebel and Imperial starfighter OPTs from here for their members?</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I've talked with them about that. It seems in the past, we had some problems with one of our members (who is no longer with us) wanting to take credit for work someone else did (many of us know of that situation). Now, they are a little *gun-shy* of doing it. <BR>That's why I said that if you want your particular opt to be used, approach those in charge and see what it would take to get your opt authorized.
I childproofed my house 2 years ago, but they still keep sneaking in.

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Post by Darksaber » Tue Jan 14, 2003 12:54 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RogueWing:<BR><STRONG>That's why I said that if you want your particular opt to be used, approach those in charge and see what it would take to get your opt authorized.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is nothing personal to you Rogue Wing but : -<P>That's one thing I can't stand about the EH, the craft we make are <B>" FREE"</B> get that <B>FREE</B>, to whoever wishes to us them for there own purposes, we don't need any authorization from a bunch of jumped up little twits at the EH.<P>Oh and if the bigwigs in all the glory from The Emperors Hammer wish to use anything I have worked, and I mean anything that has my name on it, within any of there publicly released missions: -<P>They will have to ask me for "authorization"!<P>I've dealt with the jerks in the past, all over few lines about the Emperors Hammer I added out of courtesy in one of my descriptions namely the TIE Shadow, one jerk from your group emailed me and requested that I remove anything to do with the Emperors Hammer from the description, all because the craft wasn't authorized by them! Therefore I had no right to include the name Emperors Hammer within the description.<P>And if you don’t believe me I’ll send you the email they sent me<P>So you can guess what my answer would be, can't you?
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”.”
- John Lydgate

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