OptED Ideas

All things related to Ace's news sections, opts, missions or files.

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OptED Ideas

Bios Boy
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Post by Bios Boy » Mon Jul 22, 2002 11:18 pm

Ace Antilles has given me permission to run this topic, thanks Ace :)<P>For those of you who don't know OptED is a new opt editing program that I am creating that should make opt creation easy.<P><u>What this topic is:</u><BR> Image As you think of what you want from an opt editor you can post it here<BR> Image For those of you that currently make opts you can post about features in current editors that you would like to be different<BR> Image For those of you who dont make opts what you would like in an editor to make things easy for you, what puts you off<BR> Image A place for me to post some of my ideas and get your input so I can produce the best editor possible<p>[ 23 July 2002: Message edited by: Bios Boy ]
So many projects on the go.<P>Creator of <A HREF="http://www.biosboy.fsnet.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>Opt Viewer</I></A>, <A HREF="http://www.Antilles100.freeserve.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>V-38 Assault Fighter</I></A> and <A HREF="http://www.Antilles100.freeserve.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>Alliance Escort Carrier</I></A>.<BR>Currently working on OptED an all new advanced Opt program.

Bios Boy
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Post by Bios Boy » Mon Jul 22, 2002 11:27 pm

OptED needs controls to rotate your model so it is the right way up.<P>For those of you who make opts regularly you will probably never use these controls as you will make sure the model is the correct way up before importing it but others will need them.<P>I thought the best way for everyone to understand model rotation was to use little pictures on the buttons.<P>Heres 2 I have on the go at the moment<BR> Image Image <BR>Do you like these, do you prefer one, the second one's colours could be changed, the writing could be put above the buttons, have you got better ideas.
So many projects on the go.<P>Creator of <A HREF="http://www.biosboy.fsnet.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>Opt Viewer</I></A>, <A HREF="http://www.Antilles100.freeserve.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>V-38 Assault Fighter</I></A> and <A HREF="http://www.Antilles100.freeserve.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>Alliance Escort Carrier</I></A>.<BR>Currently working on OptED an all new advanced Opt program.

ACE
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Post by ACE » Tue Jul 23, 2002 12:15 am

Sounds cool, Bios Boy! One request... I don't have a clue how to program or anything like that so I don't know how hard this would be to do but... Could you make it so you can select faces like you can in rhino? (click and drag the mouse over faces, and release to select) Because the ways of selecting faces in OPTech and Ace are very tedious, and often irritating :(<p>[ 23 July 2002: Message edited by: ACE ]

Bios Boy
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Post by Bios Boy » Tue Jul 23, 2002 12:31 am

I am going to try to include a rectangle selection box like you said but I won't know if I can do it until a lot later, lets hope.
So many projects on the go.<P>Creator of <A HREF="http://www.biosboy.fsnet.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>Opt Viewer</I></A>, <A HREF="http://www.Antilles100.freeserve.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>V-38 Assault Fighter</I></A> and <A HREF="http://www.Antilles100.freeserve.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>Alliance Escort Carrier</I></A>.<BR>Currently working on OptED an all new advanced Opt program.

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Post by ACE » Tue Jul 23, 2002 12:56 am

OK :)

Alex The Rookie Barlow
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Post by Alex The Rookie Barlow » Tue Jul 23, 2002 11:36 am

Something which you might want to consider is having a "parts bin" so that beginners (like me) have something to base their designs around, for example a TIE cockpit, solar panals, cannons, hull plates etc. Of course I don't know how hard this is to program so just say if it is too hard.

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Post by Avenger One » Tue Jul 23, 2002 9:30 pm

Something that would make it easy to put textures youve done in PSP on to the actual OPT, or at least a VERY detailed help file explaining it and something to zero the software vectors and lots of shiny bells and whistles :D
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Post by Gank » Wed Jul 24, 2002 12:44 am

Improved importing capabilitys, and the ability to import a fully textured model. If thats not possible better texturing options. Also the option to scale to a set length, not just a percentage of the original size. <P>@Rookie if you're looking to make kitbashs just convert one of the tie fighters that came with the game to dxf using acedxf and open it in your modelling program. Dont do it with anyone elses models though unless its for your own use or you have their permission.

Alex The Rookie Barlow
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Post by Alex The Rookie Barlow » Wed Jul 24, 2002 7:14 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gank:<BR><STRONG>just convert one of the tie fighters that came with the game to dxf using acedxf and open it in your modelling program.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks for the advice.

Bios Boy
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Post by Bios Boy » Wed Jul 24, 2002 9:26 am

The Rookie: I thought of a parts bin idea a while ago, people would make small parts of ships like the guns, engines etc. and let others download them. They could even be fully textured but it would only work at the model making stage not at the opt creation stage. Its still a good idea that I intend to push later tho.<P>Avenger One: I won't be adding in direct supprot for Psp images but the editor will have my own Bmp code because that is almost the format used within opts and everyone can make Bmp images. It will also include Dds image support which can contain mipmaps and transparency all in the 1 image. I tried the bells and whistles but they were too noisy :roll:<P>Gank: I have taken a great deal of time on the importing code for Obj models to make sure it is as complete and stable as possible and I intend to do the same for the Dxf code when I get around to it. One thing I wanted as an opt maker myself was to be able to import a textured model so that facility has been included into the Obj importing but it wont be in the Dxf importing as that format does not support textures. I did look at other freeware programs that people could use to texture their models but I didn't think they did the job well and easy enough so I will be trying to include simple but effective texturing options in my editor. Simple model scaling will be done by entering a value in metres and with the advanced options on you will be able to scale in 3 directions using metre values.
So many projects on the go.<P>Creator of <A HREF="http://www.biosboy.fsnet.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>Opt Viewer</I></A>, <A HREF="http://www.Antilles100.freeserve.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>V-38 Assault Fighter</I></A> and <A HREF="http://www.Antilles100.freeserve.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>Alliance Escort Carrier</I></A>.<BR>Currently working on OptED an all new advanced Opt program.

Avenger One
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Post by Avenger One » Wed Jul 24, 2002 2:20 pm

This sounds pretty good cant wait till it comes out! :)
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Post by BattleDog » Wed Jul 24, 2002 8:28 pm

An update button, like in old Optech, especially in the transparancy editor, so you can set it up, then hit a button; rather than cursing for half an hour because the thing keeps second guesing you!
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Bios Boy
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Post by Bios Boy » Wed Jul 24, 2002 11:46 pm

An update button shouldn't be neccassary but if it is then I will add it in.
So many projects on the go.<P>Creator of <A HREF="http://www.biosboy.fsnet.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>Opt Viewer</I></A>, <A HREF="http://www.Antilles100.freeserve.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>V-38 Assault Fighter</I></A> and <A HREF="http://www.Antilles100.freeserve.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>Alliance Escort Carrier</I></A>.<BR>Currently working on OptED an all new advanced Opt program.

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Post by Defiant » Thu Jul 25, 2002 6:43 am

<A HREF="http://openil.sourceforge.net/" TARGET=_blank>This library</A> might be of use to you, BiosBoy. Also, there's <A HREF="http://lib3ds.sourceforge.net/" TARGET=_blank>lib3ds</A>, which can aid in working with 3DS files.

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Post by Bios Boy » Fri Jul 26, 2002 2:28 am

Thanks Defiant I always wondered what OpenIL was and now I know :) I will have to test how good it is and hopefully it doesn't alter the pixel colours after importing an image. Do you think I should allow that many image formats or limit it to Bmp and Dds?<P>I will have to look into the 3ds library more to see if it will of any use to me.
So many projects on the go.<P>Creator of <A HREF="http://www.biosboy.fsnet.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>Opt Viewer</I></A>, <A HREF="http://www.Antilles100.freeserve.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>V-38 Assault Fighter</I></A> and <A HREF="http://www.Antilles100.freeserve.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>Alliance Escort Carrier</I></A>.<BR>Currently working on OptED an all new advanced Opt program.

Defiant
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Post by Defiant » Fri Jul 26, 2002 1:01 pm

It's very thorough. I was using it as part of my MilkShape exporter. The only problem I've had with it is not using a common palette for the generated mipmaps, so you might end up handling that yourself still.<P>I figure the best thing is to support as many formats as possible without catering to the lowest common denominator. A person might insist on using an 8-bit BMP, but then they won't have any transparency available. They might use DXF, but then there won't be any textures. That sort of thing.<P>I'm not sure how you were planning on supporting the special data that goes in the game, but a more visual way might be having the artist put specially named meshes in the file (glow, hardpoint, etc.). When it comes time to convert, their position/vector can be used for quicker positioning.

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Post by Avius » Fri Jul 26, 2002 2:58 pm

Thats a good idea defiant. One question. Bios Boy do you plan to implement 3dface modlling capabilities into your program or do we still have to use other modelling programs such as Rhino 3D and how easy will it be to model in your editor if you included modelling in your opt editor.
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Post by Bios Boy » Sat Jul 27, 2002 11:05 am

No OptED will be for turning your model into an opt for Xvt/Bop or Xwa. There will be no features to make your model, thats what the CAD programs are for. There is no way I can make CAD features that work as well as the CAD programs and also it would delay OptED's release by months.<P>Defiant: I was concidering an advanced import that would read specialy set up meshes but I have yet to decide if I will use it.<P>Special things like transparency can be setup easily using multiple bitmaps so its not the case of using the lowest format someone might have its using the formats that most people have access to.<P>I think for now I will stick to 8bit 256 colour bitmaps and also Microsoft DDS as well. Everyone can make bitmaps and they are easy to handle, although not many of you can produce DDS textures more programs are available that can make them and also 1 DDS file can hold the image, all the mipmaps and transparency.<p>[ 27 July 2002: Message edited by: Bios Boy ]
So many projects on the go.<P>Creator of <A HREF="http://www.biosboy.fsnet.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>Opt Viewer</I></A>, <A HREF="http://www.Antilles100.freeserve.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>V-38 Assault Fighter</I></A> and <A HREF="http://www.Antilles100.freeserve.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>Alliance Escort Carrier</I></A>.<BR>Currently working on OptED an all new advanced Opt program.

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Post by TIMMAY » Tue Jul 30, 2002 1:24 am

Bios Boy, Could you put up a list of the features currently in it? This could make it a bit easier to decide on what else could be in there.
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Bios Boy
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Post by Bios Boy » Tue Jul 30, 2002 1:59 am

Okay here goes...<P>First off it had to be simple so there are normal settings and also advanced settings on everything.<P><ul>[*]Supports importing of Obj files with texture placement info</li>[*]Eventually will support Dxf importing</li>[*]Might support Ace and OPTech project importing, I will have to see</li>[*]Opt Size</li><ul>[*]Normal - specify length in metres</li>[*]Advanced - specify length, width and depth in metres</li>[/LIST][*]Center</li><ul>[*]Advanced - you can manualy set this</li>[/LIST][*]Orientation</li><ul>[*]Normal - for those who need to you can click the pictured buttons to rotate your model until you see the top in the 3d display</li>[/LIST][*]Textures</li><ul>[*]I havn't got too deep into this yet but I want the textures in the opt to look exactly like they do when created</li>[*]Features like adding textures to the opt</li>[*]Removing textures</li>[*]I will be using a very simple method of using black and white bitmaps to setup any transparency and that is a more advanced transparency than is currently available in opt tools</li>[*]Illumination which I have yet to decide how to do</li>[/LIST][*]Meshes</li><ul>[*]I am working on this now, includes normal and advanced mesh information setting such as mesh type</li>[*]An easy system to assign and unassign levels of detail with cloaking distances</li>[*]Some way to setup rotation, yet to decide</li>[*]Some way to setup hardpoints, yet to decide</li>[*]Some way to setup engine glows, yet to decide</li>[*]A manual way to select faces of a mesh and apply textures over them with texture rotation and other features</li>[*]A graphical way to apply textures onto the selected mesh</li>[/LIST][*]Graphical 3d display at least as good as Opt Viewer</li><ul>[*]This will be updated to include a whole load of features</li>[*]Selecting faces with the mouse</li>[*]Applying textures</li>[*]etc...</li>[/LIST][/LIST]<P>And all the other stuff I can't remeber but I am currently working on it so don't ask me when it will be finished as I don't know.<p>[ 30 July 2002: Message edited by: Bios Boy ]
So many projects on the go.<P>Creator of <A HREF="http://www.biosboy.fsnet.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>Opt Viewer</I></A>, <A HREF="http://www.Antilles100.freeserve.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>V-38 Assault Fighter</I></A> and <A HREF="http://www.Antilles100.freeserve.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>Alliance Escort Carrier</I></A>.<BR>Currently working on OptED an all new advanced Opt program.

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Post by Defiant » Tue Jul 30, 2002 5:17 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>I will be using a very simple method of using black and white bitmaps to setup any transparency and that is a more advanced transparency than is currently available in opt tools<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Actually, from what I understand the transparency information is variable on a per-pixel basis. This is where PNG or TGA support would come in handy, but it can also be done with a separate grayscale BMP.

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Post by Bios Boy » Tue Jul 30, 2002 7:08 am

I meant greyscale, why use another image format when a bitmap does a great job for transparency.
So many projects on the go.<P>Creator of <A HREF="http://www.biosboy.fsnet.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>Opt Viewer</I></A>, <A HREF="http://www.Antilles100.freeserve.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>V-38 Assault Fighter</I></A> and <A HREF="http://www.Antilles100.freeserve.co.uk" TARGET=_blank><I>Alliance Escort Carrier</I></A>.<BR>Currently working on OptED an all new advanced Opt program.

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Post by Defiant » Tue Jul 30, 2002 5:09 pm

Because the other formats support it natively within a single image, so you can see exactly what it'll look like within the graphics editor without any extra work.<P>I merely pointed out that's where they would give an advantage. I didn't say they had to be used.

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Post by Flavid » Wed Jul 31, 2002 6:05 pm

I'd like the ability to merge meshes after texturing them. That would make texturing a lot simpler. Also be sure to include the ability to hide meshes.

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Post by koollook14 » Thu Aug 01, 2002 3:34 pm

You know what you should do BiosBoy? is release it with just BMP and DDS support for textures and then in new releases, add support for other image formats. And even with model formats, tho most modelling programs I've played around with support DXF and OBJ (whether by 3rd party plug-ins or support from the factory)
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